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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
guiguibonbon wrote:
I really understand the need to be able to do more … getting the needed content to fit in the article-constraint has not even remotely been the most challenging. Pay-pal integration was far more.
Agreed! Hacking a shopping cart system with PayPal for one of my sites was a serious challenge, but a few (very) late nights and I cracked a workable system. At the expense of some more hair…
The problem, however, was not with me. I’m a hacker, so to me TXP is a dream. It was my Frontpage-loving business partner that struggled. Specifically:
- The custom fields for Price, Quantity, Size, etc appeared on every article Write page and I had to explain they should only be filled in if he was creating something to go in the ‘products’ section, not the ‘news’ section. To me it’s obvious; to him in his mid-50s it’s not.
- He had to remember to add all the product images first then associate them via article_image. Ok, that’s a TXP workflow issue (and there are now some cool plugins from bas_* and Mary that help) but xPattern may ease this even further when images become ‘just another type’ of content.
- The ‘Summary’ custom field was for use as meta_description; the excerpt was for a brief description of the item that the customer would see on article list pages. I explained that the Summary was “the bit that Google shows” (yeah I simplified it!) Looking back I could have auto-generated the meta_description for products from the excerpt (not sure if I’m penalised on SEO grounds for duplicating content verbatim…) but either way I couldn’t remove the Summary tag from the screen so again had to explain under what circumstances that should be filled in.
There were other “issues” he brought up, but it was a long time ago and I’ve slept since then. The upshot was he gave up and I now maintain the site. The whole point of me researching CMS solutions until I eventually stumbled upon TXP and fell in love was to shift the load off me. That backfired! To him, if it takes more than 3 clicks to accomplish, or if there are more than 3 boxes on-screen he gets lost or assumes it’s too difficult. If something’s spread across more than one page, forget it, he goes back to Frontpage (spit)!
Maybe TXP just doesn’t fit at all with people like that because, after extolling its virtues, when I came to actually explain how to use it I realised it wasn’t all that easy for people that aren’t willing to put the time in, or those that are ingrained in a particular mindset.
To me, the fun of a system is bending it to breaking point and making it do what it isn’t supposed to do. Hence my love of Linux/UNIX and my loathe of “you can’t do that, you might hurt me” Windoze. In some sick way I suppose the draw of xPattern is in making TXP do something it ain’t supposed to!
My hope for xPattern is that the underlying database structure will allow us to simplify the tags and clean up the interface at the same time, showing only those bits that are relevant. It may still be too complicated for my business partner to grasp but I feel I’ve gotta try…
Last edited by Bloke (2007-05-23 20:57:48)
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
mrdale wrote:
@Christopher: Your avatar freaks me right out.
Yep, you understand the concept 100%. However, for backward compatability purposes, the links tab (and the standard bq. content-type) will likely stick around.
BUT… with xPattern, You could create your own super-dooper-link content-type with whatever fields you’d like to add.
Make sense?
Makes perfect sense. Hmmm, maybe time to change my avatar?
Last edited by Christopher (2007-05-23 22:10:41)
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
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#34 2007-05-24 01:43:59
- nardo
- Member
- From: tuvalahiti
- Registered: 2004-04-22
- Posts: 743
Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Bloke – those type of client situations – LOL – I hear ya!! even when clients are regular internet users and have experience with hosted blogs, flickr, etc, it can still get sticky… personally I would like to be able to offer the client a completely detached interface for adding content, and customise that to label the fields exactly how they appear on the site (I guess this is XML-RPC, SOAP, I never really paid much attention to these previously!)… or using Manfre’s plugins
I don’t have guiguibonbon’s chops but from experience find that abstracting right out creates a lot of work & costs a lot of hours; the return on that investment is not guaranteed, as websites often need significant changes within 2-4 years, or the client ends up delegating content input to you… Textpattern as a publishing tool offers a good compromise, altho I am talking more about abstracting out sites to allow clients ultimate flexibility in adding sections/categories etc… often clients prefer a clearly-defined set of ‘rules’ for adding content (agoraphobia)
not knocking the project tho, and this is just some tangenital ramblings; all power to u!
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Bloke wrote:
Hence my love of Linux/UNIX and my loathe of “you can’t do that, you might hurt me” Windoze.
Linux is one big forking party :)
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Man, I must be busy, I haven’t kept up on this thread at all, I’ve been too busy xpatterning.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but this stuff is exhilirating to me.
The dev group is thinking about good stuff too. There is good movement in TXP.
I for one am psyched.
M
- I am Squared Eye and I
am launchinghave launched Pattern Tap
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
This looks like a really interesting project that adds a lot of much needed improvements. Gonna bookmark this thread.
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Manfre,
If you’re interested in adding to the conversation, we’ll be getting an official one going soon at xpattern/work (moving from google groups).
Matthew
- I am Squared Eye and I
am launchinghave launched Pattern Tap
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Cheers to you all…I’ll be following closely with great anticipation.
This is an absolutely brilliant endeavour
—
Tom
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
@renobird & manfre
glad you like the idea…
Got mad skills? wanna help?
Last edited by mrdale (2007-05-29 20:39:28)
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Dale,
No skills in the progamming area. Hacking away at best. : )
Love the idea though…will really open things up.
—
Tom
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#42 2007-06-02 04:15:35
- Logoleptic
- Plugin Author
- From: Kansas, USA
- Registered: 2004-02-29
- Posts: 482
Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Just to clear this up in my own head: this is kinda like Drupal’s Content Construction Kit, but for Textpattern. Is that what you’re aiming for?
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Logoleptic wrote:
Just to clear this up in my own head: this is kinda like Drupal’s Content Construction Kit, but for Textpattern. Is that what you’re aiming for?
Yes. I haven’t delved too much into CCK to describe where it is the same and where it is different but the general idea is the same.
Last edited by hakjoon (2007-06-04 17:39:30)
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Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
Add Views, and you’re there.
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#45 2007-06-08 01:28:07
- Logoleptic
- Plugin Author
- From: Kansas, USA
- Registered: 2004-02-29
- Posts: 482
Re: Introducing "xPattern" Workgroup
wet wrote:
Add Views, and you’re there.
Sounds pretty sweet. I just hope it maintains the same elegance as the rest of Txp. Powerful as it is, much of Drupal seems clumsy to me.
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