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[wiki] Drop Main Page?
Since the wiki’s default page became the TextBook International portal (TI), which I think is a big improvement, I’ve had the feeling that the former default page, Main Page, fails to be as relevant as it once was, and even redundant against the other index pages representing topic regions, namely:
I realize the old main page was designed to consolidate links a bit better; however, consider the following as they appear to stand now:
- The main pages are redundant against the separate indexes mentioned above, and now require two different pages edits for any one single change to a given index region. Useless.
- The “wiki” link bars under each language section on the TI portal page offer a roundabout path to a given page now by way of the two options suggested in #1 above. Useless.
- The “Edit” functions in all these spin-off main pages (the English version and all the translated versions) do not function as they once did. They are oddly positioned in misleading locations and might cause more confusion that provide help. I’m not sure why they’re like that now; I’ve tried looking into it, but can’t seem to find the cause. Note this is not the case with the TI portal page which functions as it’s supposed to.
- The consolidated format of links, as they are in the main pages, kills the wiki’s ability to automatically create a meaningful Table of Contents for the page. Contrarily, the individual index pages are nicely ToC-ed.
You might be thinking the opposite, why not keep the main page clones and delete the topic index pages? I’m not favoring this direction first because of the broken “Edit” feature, but also because the three column pages just don’t allow for effective writing. If you need to add a parenthetical note after a link, for example, it becomes too cramped and ugly looking. As an example, look at the Subversion sections on the en/Main Page and on the equivalent index page ; in particular, look at the link for Subversion Installation for Windows via wget, note how much better the parenthetical note is displayed (and thus readable) in the index version of the page.
So, what I am proposing, and would prefer to do, is eliminate the main page clones and just stick with the regional indexes noted above. Not only would this simplify editing, clean up the link bars in the TI portal, and eliminate the mislocated “Edit” links on the main page clone pages, but it would allow language efforts to expand on their index pages in cleaner fashion.
Feelings about this?
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
I wanted to also point out that I’m slowly trying to integrate breadcrumb navigation into the wiki (top of each page) so that no matter whatever page you are on, there is a path back to the beginning regional index page. You can see these so far in the Tag pages, and I’ve started implementing them in other pages I’m working on, such as the Site Admin pages, Subversion pages, XAMPP pages, and anywhere else I find myself scratching.
Help with such matters is always welcome and appreciated. Need one?
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
OK, a lack of feedback is as good as a “whatever dude,” so I have dropped the main page from the English section. It still exists in the wiki’s guts (for the time being), but I won’t be supporting it. You can see the new English link structure in the International default page.
Other languages can continue using their main/start pages as they like, or can follow the model I am now using for individual section indexes.
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
Hello Destry. Is it possible to better use the large blank space beside the “content” grey box? I think this should be a good place to provide english shortcut to mainly used or informative sections. More in particular, now the main page “hide” the tag index (which i search most of the time) and some introductory articles. I also think the “reading up” column of the previous main page version should be important for many readers and could be mantained. Would that make sense?
Anyway, a link to the old informative main page (very dense and informative) may be provided, if one would go and explore? I say this because I personally don’t go on the national pages, but maybe it’s me. Anyway, maybe both goals can be reached. :)
Thanks, bye!
Z
Last edited by Zanza (2006-08-23 10:23:59)
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
Is it possible to better use the large blank space beside the “content” grey box? I think this should be a good place to provide english shortcut to mainly used or informative sections.
I think if what you are really after is keeping the English Main Page accessible somewhere, then it’s easier to just leave a single link either under the English section on the International page, in the left column, or both.
However, I think this ToC idea brings up a good point about that blank space, we should be floating that box to allow page text to wrap to right or left. That would be a better way to collapse that empty space.
More in particular, now the main page “hide” the tag index (which i search most of the time) and some introductory articles. I also think the “reading up” column of the previous main page version should be important for many readers and could be mantained. Would that make sense?
You lost me here. This information is still where it has always been, all those things are still indicated/accessible on/from the wikis default page under the English section. And it takes the same number of mouse clicks to get to any given page as it did before I started this thread. In some cases fewer clicks depending on what your ultimate page destination is (e.g., a site admin panel page).
By the way, these links could be under the Italiano section too if anyone took the time to add them there, but they would have to be in Italian, of course. ;)
very dense and informative
Your calling the main page “dense and informative,” which it is and why I created to begin with; however, I’m pointing out that it’s also restrictive, redundant (against the necessary top-level, section indexes), and has broken link functionality. Which weighs more for keeping it?
Here’s the reality of it, Zanza, I’m usually the only one that bothers maintaining those indexes. Sometimes people dive in and fix a given page, and that’s great, but as for the English navigational type pages and indexes, that’s almost exclusively me. I’ll leave that page if you think it has value, but I personally won’t be maintaining it. Why? Because as I’ve already said, it’s redundant against the section index pages which I think are far more important, and I’ve grown tired of maintaining two sets of indexes for each section by myself. Hence, I’ll leave the page but it will likely grow obsolete over time unless somebody else adopts it. Frankly, I don’t thing the redundancy is the right way to go, and thus the whole reason for this thread to begin with.
Maybe what we need to try is an adopt-a-page process in the wiki, where people take care of a given page (or series of pages) to ensure the content (and relevant links to/from it) are always up to date. This has a lot of good merits, actually, especially considering so few people bother working in the wiki. However, if I were to lay a bet on this working, I’d bet against anyone taking interest.
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
Well, there’s a lot of arguments, here. I understand that you’re the only one actually working on the wiki, and this is hard and valuable. You’re doing a great job. I had no reason to discuss this.
My idea was only to eliminate that blank space by letting it display some of the more useful “basic information” (especially to move the tag list and some help link above the folder) from the previous version of the page. Some of them are in the english section, but english section is below the folder. So maybe a solution would actually be to float the ToC to make english section wrap, as you say.
Anyway, it was just an idea, as I saw all that blank space. You decide. That said, I never use the Italian section. :-(
Bye
Z-
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
Destry wrote:
However, I think this ToC idea brings up a good point about that blank space, we should be floating that box to allow page text to wrap to right or left. That would be a better way to collapse that empty space.
Hmmm. Just tried this. It works, but causes problems on pages that begin with a rather wide graphic (which is forced to the bottom of the ToC), like what the admin panel docs do, for example. These images could be narrowed-up to crop out what is not explicitely needed, but I don’t know if it’s worth it. I think most people just hide the ToC anyway until they choose to use it for anchor jumping or whatever.
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
I never realized I could hide the panel! :) This is way I quickly scan the page to look for the links I need… :) This remind me that people hardly realize all the options on a page…
Anyway, the float should only occur in the main page, not in every page has a ToC! Is it viable, i.e. via a body attribute?
Bye
Z.
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
Zanza wrote:
Anyway, the float should only occur in the main page, not in every page has a ToC! Is it viable, i.e. via a body attribute?
Not exactly. The wiki functions kind of like Txp…there’s a single index.php page and everything else is dynamically generated. Yet unlike Txp, there is not a set of different page templates we can target differently.
Even so, would it really be worth putting the links your referring to up in that space when they are already right there under the English header? Especially now that you’ve discovered the “hide” feature? ;)
I wouldn’t want to see the same links in both places as that goes against this redundancy problem I’m trying to eliminate, and I think they need to at least be where they are at, under the English section. The whole International portal thing came about because members of the community voiced that the wiki was too English-centric. We listened. We made changes. What your suggesting could possibly relight the torches that have since been put out.
Everyone is never happy, that’s for sure.
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Re: [wiki] Drop Main Page?
Oh, at last I didn’t mean to replicate any link, just to move the english section in the blank space, so to move its links above the folder. From a design point of view this would have only benefit: it won’t make the page more english centric than now, because it simply float up some content of some hundred of pixels.
About the hide thing, well, nice, but I suspect most occasional users won’t notice and use it. Anyway, if it’s not techically doable, well, we’ll make a reason of this and scroll (or click “hide”). It was just an idea. :)
Thanks!
Z
Last edited by Zanza (2006-08-23 23:13:41)
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