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Imagine you were starting a web site design business...
Further imagine that you plan to begin by “developing” web sites by installing Textpattern, installing a template and providing your client with the knowledge they need to start publishing on their web site.
Now the questions:- Suppose you have lots of room at your host, can you do this work directly in a subdirectory or subdomain or should you use a localhosting setup to tune the sites?
- What should your workflow be? Is it as straightforward as a) install Textpattern b) install the template c) add some sample content d) get the client’s approval e) then, repeat the whole process using the client’s domain and web host?
- Is there any way to do all of step 2 on a localhost setup and then “upload” everything without having to go back through all the steps?
- If you get the “first draft” of the client’s site done on a localhost arrangement, how do they get to see it?
FYI – I’m not starting such a business, but I believe the workflow for a serious hobbyist should be as well thought out as that used by the pros.
Last edited by 6sigma (2006-06-21 21:39:29)
“Well, I, uh, don’t think it’s quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.” General ‘Buck’ Turgidson
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#2 2006-06-22 01:02:53
- Mary
- Sock Enthusiast
- Registered: 2004-06-27
- Posts: 6,236
Re: Imagine you were starting a web site design business...
- You should never develop (programming) sites on a live server. As long as all you’re doing is basic site setup, form customization, etc that should be okay.
- You’re on a highway to headache that way. First have the client specify exactly which template they want, including any refinements or changes. Invariably it becomes a never-ending loop of, “Oh just change…”. Try and avoid that all costs. Then proceed with your list.
- Sure, as long as the web server and MySQL version is the same as what you’d be switching to. (Meeting the minimum PHP version requirement too, of course.)
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#3 2006-06-22 02:45:42
- net-carver
- Archived Plugin Author
- Registered: 2006-03-08
- Posts: 1,648
Re: Imagine you were starting a web site design business...
Re: Item 4.
Options might include…
- Take a laptop to the client and show them the site.
- Supply a portfolio of screenshots
- Make a screen capture movie of the site and send it to them.
- Go through step 3 and make the site live but un-advertised, possibly on a subdomain of your own (use password protection if you wish).
Like Mary said, do your development on localhost, not on a live site. If you are running on Windows, there are some nice packages around that have Apache, MySQL and PHP bundled together. Some of them even have a mail server and other goodies thrown in. Very nice for localhost development. Linux platforms should have most of what you need already.
I would also add that you should aim for clients who know why they need a website, know at least some of what they want it to do and have some content ready to go, even if on paper and will commit to generating more. Nothing like having a nicely designed site with no purpose, no worthwhile content and no buy-in from the top. There is an article about this side of things on SonSpring.com and the forum’s very own Matthew has some interesting stuff to say about it too.
— Steve
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Re: Imagine you were starting a web site design business...
To a great extent the questions I asked transcend the religious wars – LAMP/XAMPP/WAMP or OS X/Windows/Linux and the like. The issue is one of best practice. What are the web site design (not development) practices that treat your fellow tenants on a shared server well? What are the practices that ensure site owners have high site uptimes regardless of whether the sites get heavy traffic or not?
Mary indicated that you could use a localhost setup to install Textpattern, install and tweak a template and then upload it to the host… <strong>“as long as the web server and MySQL version is the same as what you’d be switching to.”</strong> Does this mean that the only way this approach will work is if the host is running precisely the same WAMP, XAMPP or LAMP setup that I use? Does it mean that if I use WAMP to get Txp, a template and a site ready for public viewing, I’m then shut out from using an ftp client to upload the new site to a host like TextDrive? (note: TextDrive uses OpenSolaris, FreeBSD, etc.) In other words, I’d have to literally do a default Txp install, followed by individual cut/copy/paste of pages, forms, styles, etc.?
When a designer tampers with CSS in Textpattern to get something just right, I think I’m hearing that all of that work should be done on a localhost setup – not at the host – regardless of whether the site is buried in a subdomain or not. Do I have that right? Or, if the search results page of a new web site (again, based in Textpattern) is getting tweaked, that tweaking needs to happen on a localhost. Otherwise, the shared users of your host and the sites they and their customers depend on are at risk.
I think these are the things I’m hearing. If I’m right, do these factors mean that Textpattern designers running and hosting sites on TextDrive (and interested in best practices) need to become the proud owners of Sun hardware running OpenSolaris with ZFS? To see how one host views the world, you might enjoy this.
[Disclaimer: I’m not trying to see what one can get away with. Rather, I truly want to understand what the real pros in the field of Textpattern design and deployment advise and do. Thanks.]
“Well, I, uh, don’t think it’s quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.” General ‘Buck’ Turgidson
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#5 2006-06-22 06:14:04
- Mary
- Sock Enthusiast
- Registered: 2004-06-27
- Posts: 6,236
Re: Imagine you were starting a web site design business...
When a designer tampers with CSS in Textpattern to get something just right, I think I’m hearing that all of that work should be done on a localhost setup – not at the host – regardless of whether the site is buried in a subdomain or not. Do I have that right? Or, if the search results page of a new web site (again, based in Textpattern) is getting tweaked, that tweaking needs to happen on a localhost. Otherwise, the shared users of your host and the sites they and their customers depend on are at risk.
What I said was:
You should never develop (programming) sites on a live server. As long as all you’re doing is basic site setup, form customization, etc that should be okay.
…I’m then shut out from using an ftp client to upload the new site to a host like TextDrive?
No. No idea where you got that idea from.
What are the web site design (not development) practices that treat your fellow tenants on a shared server well?
There are no guarantees. Best practices have already been mentioned.
To a great extent the questions I asked transcend the religious wars – LAMP/XAMPP/WAMP or OS X/Windows/Linux and the like. The issue is one of best practice.
Uh, okay… again, no idea were you’re picking this up, ‘cuz it’s not from myself or Steve.
- Open Solaris and FreeBSD are operating systems/platforms. When I say web server, I mean webserver software, say Apache versus IIS (clean urls are pretty much not doable on IIS).
- MySQL version matters, if one of you is running MySQL 3 and the other MySQL 4.1 or 5.
That doesn’t mean it can’t be done, but there can be difficulties. If you run into trouble you have to be prepared for that. If you’re not, don’t do it. That’s what pros do: never take on a job beyond your capabilities.
What are the practices that ensure site owners have high site uptimes regardless of whether the sites get heavy traffic or not?
I’m not sure what heavy traffic has to do with it, you’re just setting the site up. If heavy traffic does come into it at all, you’d very likely be violating your host’s TOS and AUP which I wouldn’t recommend.
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Re: Imagine you were starting a web site design business...
Like the others said, the main thing you really have to watch out for is that your development setup is not fundamentally different from that of the target webhoster. If both run apache webservers and php 4+ and mysql you’re probably going to be fine.
Things that in my experience differ from time to time are:
- support for mod_rewrite (clean url support). Some problems with the htaccess and mod_rewrite by particular webhosts have been solved for different hosts (search the forum).
- different mysql versions. You can export sql databases for importing in other versions, but mysql 4.1 supports things like unicode where mysql 3.23 does not, and that can be a pain with foreign character sets.
- There are probably a few other little issues like GD-support (for thumbnailing) and php running in safe_mode, which won’t run some web apps (can’t remember for txp), but I’ve not run into either as yet. From your pic, it looks like you make educated hosting choices.
1. Normal txp development on your webserver in a sub-directory where no-one else sees it is fine in my opinion (but developing program code is a different matter, which I think is what mary meant), it just requires a standing internet connection, uses up some of your traffic (minor) and available databases and is invariably slower than your localhost setup.
2. I have as yet never used a template (but then again I rarely ever do a blog). As far as design is concerned, content is a major determining factor for both concept and layout. Shoehorning content into a pre-fixed solution only works when ‘foot’ and ‘shoe’ happen to be made for one another. Otherwise you invariably have to pad out or rebuild your shoe (template), or you file away at their foot (content). Neither is much fun. Content up front is better, as is an open discussion of aims/users/image.
3. Switching from a localhost to a webserver is described in the textbook and is mostly of transferring your files, setting permissions and setting new config information.
4. If this last step (3) really bothers you, you can set up localhost to be accessible from outside, for instance using a dynamic dns service such as dyndns. You tell dyndns your current IP, this can then be called up from outside and your client can view their site on your own local webserver. Here too there are things to overcome, such as firewall/router settings. Personally, I don’t bother with that.
My typical arrangement:
After receiving content, analysing usage needs, customer aims, image etc., I work up things conceptually before I begin with txp, i.e. site structure, layout, page templates/wireframe etc. then:
- site development and work on a localhost, main browser testing included.
- transfer draft version to a subdirectory on my own webhosting. Advantage: I know how it works so the process doesn’t run into unforeseeable glitches that need support from another webhoster.
- discuss in detail, depending upon degree of changes continue working on my localhost or tweak in my sub-directory.
- when finished transfer to company webhoster. check, okay from client, site goes live.
- parallel to that or immediately afterwards induction/training and documentation (help for client, notes for myself about hacks/mods).
This may seem like a bore, but 3, 6 or 9 months later you may no longer know off the cuff. I also like to enable the client to use their website themselves – they develop a ‘relationship’ to their website, and to you because you made it well. Also personally, I am also not a great fan of amassing maintenance contracts (of course I do provide support) – after a while you have tons of tiny changes to make and no time left for the ‘meaty’ tasks.
TXP Builders – finely-crafted code, design and txp
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