Default to one feed format only

Anark · 2006-06-06 01:41:32

When the Joyent blog launched, the first thing that struck me, for some reason, was that they avoided Textpattern’s dual RSS / Atom offering and went with only one format.

Which makes sense — there’s no point in offering the same stuff in Atom and RSS — unless you’re out to make people’s lives more complicated than they need to be. Make up your mind: offer your feeds in one format or the other.

When the Joyent blog launched, it surprised me a bit that they chose RSS rather than Atom. Meanwhile they seem to have changed their mind and point to an Atom feed using a button that reads RSS, which is refreshingly unconventional, maybe.

Here’s a feature request for an upcoming TxP release. Instead of defaulting to the RSS / Atom thing, would it be possible to have radio buttons in the admin interface that lets people choose their feed format, and then offer that format only?

Oh, and feed templating, but Zem said that templating was coming soon.

hcgtv · 2006-06-06 01:51:56

Came across this today: http://nick.typepad.com/blog/2006/05/pick_a_format_a.html

Last edited by hcgtv (2006-06-06 01:52:34)

Anark · 2006-06-06 02:07:16

Yup. Exactly.

Anark · 2006-06-06 02:14:27

Maybe even bake the common feed icon into the default theme so that neither “RSS” nor “Atom” would appear on the site. Joe Blow shouldn’t need to worry his head over the distinction.

Last edited by Anark (2006-06-06 02:15:22)

NyteOwl · 2006-06-06 16:24:15

Maybe even bake the common feed icon into the default theme so that neither “RSS” nor “Atom” would appear on the site. Joe Blow shouldn’t need to worry his head over the distinction.

On the other hand it’s nice to have a choice.

I prefer RSS 1.x format which unfortuantely TxP doesn’t currently support.

I’m also one of the folks that think you shouldn’t make icons do double duty and IIRC that “common feed icon” is already in use as a system audio icon.

Last edited by NyteOwl (2006-06-06 16:27:10)

hakjoon · 2006-06-06 19:42:08

Doesn’t including only <txp:feed_link label="feed" flavor="rss" /> or <txp:feed_link label="feed" flavor="atom" /> in your template pretty much accomplish this? Or am I missing something?

Anark · 2006-06-07 00:32:45

On the other hand it’s nice to have a choice.

Maybe it’s nice for the geeks to have a choice. Web feeds, however, are on the point of being adopted by the general public, and — however titanic the mighty struggle between the DaveWinerians and the SamRubians might look to you and me — to the general user the choice between an RSS and an Atom feed is utterly meaningless. You’re asking them to choose between Tweedledee and Tweedledum. The choice is worse than meaningless, actually, because it creates confusion that slows uptake. Myself, I’ve replied to e-mail from reasonably clueful general users who didn’t know which feed they should subscribe to.

I prefer RSS 1.x format which unfortuantely TxP doesn’t currently support.

Let’s keep the formats themselves out of this conversation, shall we? Zem is working on those. This is about simplifying the interface.

I’m also one of the folks that think you shouldn’t make icons do double duty and IIRC that “common feed icon” is already in use as a system audio icon.

Do you have any evidence to back this up? I didn’t find anything using a Google Image search.

Or am I missing something?

Well, I didn’t post this to the “How Do I…” forum, did I?

Thinking more broadly: the default interfaces that CMSs ship with have a deep impact on the interfaces that people end up using, and in the way TxP currently presents its feeds, it promotes less-than-perfect usability and interface design.

Look, the ice cream man offers you a choice between vanilla and strawberry. The ice cream man does not offer you a choice between two brands of strawberry ice cream because there’s only one customer out of a thousand who has an educated opinion on the difference — to all other customers the choice is a nuisance that keeps them from getting on with their lives.

hakjoon · 2006-06-07 14:16:23

Anark wrote:
Well, I didn’t post this to the “How Do I…” forum, did I?

Thinking more broadly: the default interfaces that CMSs ship with have a deep impact on the interfaces that people end up using, and in the way TxP currently presents its feeds, it promotes less-than-perfect usability and interface design.

Look, the ice cream man offers you a choice between vanilla and strawberry. The ice cream man does not offer you a choice between two brands of strawberry ice cream because there’s only one customer out of a thousand who has an educated opinion on the difference — to all other customers the choice is a nuisance that keeps them from getting on with their lives.

The decision of which feed format to offer is not a decision that TXP should make. It’s a decision that should be made by the site implementer/designer taking into account the specific needs of the site.

Maybe the default template could be modified to default to one format, but I see no difference between adding the desired feed link in the template and having a radio button in the admin like you suggested. The net result is the same, one feed option is presented to the user.

Your scenario still requires that the customer choose between strawberry and chocolate. They are just doing it in the admin interface instead of through a template tag.

NyteOwl · 2006-06-07 19:39:33

The majority of “feed” users tend to also be bloggers and while that number is growing among internet literati they are still a minority as far as the public is concerned. The “new” feed icon is very much like both Engadget and DBViewer’s logos, it also bears a remarkable resemblance to the wireless and volume icons used by Apple. Actually the first time I saw it (and I’m far from alone in this) I thought it had something to do with wi-fi.

As for not discussing the formats, that’s exactly what a suggestion to limit the presented offering to one is at its core. If only one is to be offered why should it be RSS 2? or Atom? or RSS 1? or even 0.92? If someone is savvy enough to have a site with syndicated content they are certainly savvy enough to know that their users know enough to select the feed format they want. For that matter feed links are only needed for older browsers and the newer ones will pick up the alternate <link> tag if used in the header to display the feed icons for the browser directly.

To contrast your ice cream analogy; by that logic all pubs/taverns/bars should only offer one brand and/or type of beer (what a terrible thought) ;-)

Sencer · 2006-06-07 20:00:11

hakjoon wrote:

The decision of which feed format to offer is not a decision that TXP should make. It’s a decision that should be made by the site implementer/designer taking into account the specific needs of the site.

Yes, I agree.

Anark wrote:

Thinking more broadly: the default interfaces that CMSs ship with have a deep impact on the interfaces that people end up using, and in the way TxP currently presents its feeds, it promotes less-than-perfect usability and interface design.

We ship with one default theme, and there are at least half a dozen sensible way to present feeds. The choice is between a couple of icons, no icons (only autodiscovery), Text, and of course one of two feed-formats. No matter which way will be chosen, ultimately some people will always feel that we are responsible for dooming civilation as we know it.
I am sure that the default theme of the next major release will look different, and more appropiately fit in with the times it’s going to be released in – including the presentation of feeds (remember that the current layout was – basically – made a looong while ago).

Last edited by Sencer (2006-06-07 20:01:04)

Anark · 2006-06-09 02:18:32

hakjoon wrote:

The decision of which feed format to offer is not a decision that TXP should make. It’s a decision that should be made by the site implementer/designer taking into account the specific needs of the site.

I completely agree with this, too. If any of the above came out any other way, I apologise for lack of clarity.

Maybe the default template could be modified to default to one format, but I see no difference between adding the desired feed link in the template and having a radio button in the admin like you suggested. The net result is the same, one feed option is presented to the user.

The difference to the status quo would be that the end user (the person viewing the site) would be offered one type of feed by default, not two. The net result would be that whatever the site owner’s choice (or lack of choice), there’d be one type of feed out there, not two. Radio buttons in the admin interface would be one way of stongly suggesting that only one type of feed be used; site owners would have to go out of their way to offer two. As it is, site owners have to go out of their way to offer one.

Whatever benefit the syndication-savvy geek end user may derive from being able to choose between RSS and Atom, I believe that this benefit is far outweighed by the confusion the choice creates among non-geeks to whom — rightly — the choice is completely irrelevant. They just want to get the job done.

This occurred to me the other day when an otherwise fairly competent user got confused over the choice and asked me which she should pick. I had to explain, that er, um — really, it doesn’t matter.

And it doesn’t. Not to the end user who just wants to subscribe to a blog feed. And the next release of Textpattern should set an example and, by default, present only one type of feed to the end user. Is all I’m saying.

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#1 2006-06-06 01:41:32

Default to one feed format only

#2 2006-06-06 01:51:56

Re: Default to one feed format only

#3 2006-06-06 02:07:16

Re: Default to one feed format only

#4 2006-06-06 02:14:27

Re: Default to one feed format only

#5 2006-06-06 16:24:15

Re: Default to one feed format only

#6 2006-06-06 19:42:08

Re: Default to one feed format only

#7 2006-06-07 00:32:45

Re: Default to one feed format only

#8 2006-06-07 14:16:23

Re: Default to one feed format only

#9 2006-06-07 19:39:33

Re: Default to one feed format only

#10 2006-06-07 20:00:11

Re: Default to one feed format only

#11 2006-06-09 02:18:32

Re: Default to one feed format only

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