[contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

Michael · 2006-04-30 05:55:21

Hi,

I have used several themes/templates on several sites of mine and my resume out of this experience is that the themes and tempaltes submitted to the brilliant textgarden should really be quality-checked… Sometimes, installing a theme can be annoying, because the manual is crap, the authors of the themes try to persuade the user who needs the theme to change their habbits in specific ways and so on and so on. The simple lack of high quality themes will be the future problem of Textpattern.

M.

Last edited by Michael (2007-02-19 08:35:39)

hcgtv · 2006-04-30 18:06:57

Michael,

All of my Textpattern installs use the default template while I learn the ropes. Being so new to Textpattern, the instructions to install a new template seem daunting. There has been talk about creating a theme engine and I think it would help tremendously.

Thankfully I have a local install to play with because I would never attempt a new template on a live site. One thing I don’t understand is why new templates want to mess with the default templates, they should all have unique pages and forms, that way you can go back if an issue arises.

After having used Textpattern for 4 months, I can see the power in it’s abstraction of sections, pages and forms. There’s no site you can’t build with it, after having gone through the learning curve that is.

Shaliza · 2006-04-30 20:23:08

You have a point about the habit change. I’ve noticed that in quite a few instructions.

However, since my site is an entertainment one, I make my own.

marios · 2006-04-30 22:34:59

Shaliza wrote:

You have a point about the habit change. I’ve noticed that in quite a few instructions.

However, since my site is an entertainment one, I make my own.

@Shaliza, I would recomend to look for some more templates, compare, grab one that suits your needs, and then modify the existing one, that way you can save time.

(But yes, for the real need, you’d be better off to build from scratch)

regards , marios

Mary · 2006-05-01 03:51:24

You’re quite welcome to volunteer for this quality checking service.

MsContrary · 2006-05-01 04:06:56

Mary wrote:

You’re quite welcome to volunteer for this quality checking service.

I second this! After reading Michael’s article, I think he’d be a good candidate to critique the templates.

In playing around with a few I’ve noticed that some are well documented and thought out. (I learned smething from them!) Others were not, and perhaps these people could learn from being shown what’s good about some and not so good about others.

At one point I was attempting a template for the contest but decided that I just didn’t know enough. If I’d submitted one, I’m sure it would have been on Michael’s “not so good” list!

M

Michael · 2006-05-01 09:18:17

Hi again,

I think one point that comes out here in the discussion is the wish for quality-checking (to specific guidelines) for templates submitted to textgarden. While I cannot check each submitted template for all the different points that make it a good template without all the annoyances we mentioned here (I, too, have a life beyond the txp-universe), I would agree to build some guidelines (I love guidelines) for template-developers to follow…

My first points would be:

Do not modifiy the way TXP handles CSS, HTML and Forms. (No css file uploading, etc.)
Use as much as possible the default pages and forms.
If you want me to upload something make it work with TXP internal upload mechanisms.
Develop correct and validable code in html as well as css.
Do not use plug-ins, if they are not absolutely necessary. (In fact, I’d argue not to use plug-ins at all…)
Write manuals that match the current status of your development and are easy to understand.
Never let the user change parts of the source-code of either a plug-in or TXP itself!

Any more ideas?

marios · 2006-05-02 13:52:19

That looks like lot of do’s and don’ts. For some reason I can not go the do’s and donats route, (At least for myself),
The Textgarden Site as is, maintained by Stuart now ( The creator commited suicide ), was originally thought of a garden, flowers were allowed to grow in all colors, and picking was not prohibited either.
The templates that I have seen, among them a lot of ports from Stuart(Didn’t use them for myself,cause I like to grow my own template system) are very well documented, especially for beginners, step by step they are even going through things that are beyond a usual help file.

So the thing how I see it personally is two major routes are possible.

1.Templates suited for beginners and intermediate Users as is ( Pretty much routed an the default template, which is not bad, if you examine it a little in depth)

2 Advanced templates (since relying on a modification of the section structure and their relation to their respective page templates alters the hierarchy levels usually from two to three, and therefore are allready diverting to something individual), ports , modifications based on a specific Site category, etc..

It all depends on your needs, and what you want Textpattern to do the tempaltes and forms, but since the needs are individaully different, it will not be possible without plugins sometimes.

Regarding the code, ( I haven’t checked lately, are there any validation Issues, that you found ?)

Guidelines are sure good, but in gereral I think, when someone releases a Template, he mostly allready has figured out for what need, whether it works or not ,and that it will validate in its unmodified stage.

(All that applies to the 4.03 world)

regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2006-05-02 13:54:59)

TNT · 2006-05-02 20:10:24

I have to agree with Marios. TXP is a very powerful CMS, which takes a little getting used to. But I don’t think that’s a problem.

If one would want a simple website, controlled by a CMS, there are a lot less sophiscated CMS’s than TXP that would do the job perfectly. But if one wants a more complex website, TXP is right for the job. And since complex is the opposite of easy, one then must put some effort in understanding TXP in order to work with the more advanced templates.

Therefore, the route Marios is suggesting seems fine by me. Are you a newbie, trying to learn the ropes of TXP? Choose a simple template. Or are you a more advanced user, with the desire to go to infinity and beyond with TXP? Use a more advanced template (or build your own.) This would mean that textgarden.org should have a rating system for the level of difficulty for the use of a template.

Michael, all of the above doesn’t mean that I don’t subscribe to your point of view that the manual for installing a template should be detailed and precise. But, regarding your guidelines, I do think that for the more advanced templates, the bar can be set higher for TXP-users.

hcgtv · 2006-11-29 04:51:13

After 10 months of using Textpattern, I’m starting to get into the templating side of things. What took me so long? I wanted to make sure Textpattern fit the bill.

This thread caught my attention cause quality controlled templates is what I did on the last project I was involved with. I gathered all the templates, installed them on one install and gave each of them a blog, or a section in Textpattern terms. This allowed me to test them all in a live setting, tweak them and then save them off into zips. This test site ended up becoming the official skins site for the project, live testing of all available skins.

While searching for templates, I’ve come across some interesting sites, none as simple and to the point as Free CSS Templates. It’s all about templates for sNews, running sNews of course. Clicking Demo: View next to a template thumbnail brings you into the template, feel free to play with it. On the top menu, clicking Demo brings you to a drop down for quick template access. The site has it somewhat covered, the different techniques to allow users to view available templates.

The same could be done at TextGarden, templates for the picking.

marios · 2006-11-29 15:21:39

Well . that looks interisting hcgtv, thanks for pointing to this. Right now, I am working on a port to add one more option to the collection.
What I have been noticing, the last time I visited textgarden, are a lot of broken links to the Demo locations.
And then it would be nice also, to have a certain naming convention set, as pointed out here, to ease the whole templating process and make it easier to work them.
All that could be included int TGS as well.

regards, marios

NyteOwl · 2006-11-30 01:47:13

While searching for templates, I’ve come across some interesting sites, none as simple and to the point as Free CSS Templates.

Those look an awful lot like the templates over at OSWD

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#1 2006-04-30 05:55:21

[contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#2 2006-04-30 18:06:57

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#3 2006-04-30 20:23:08

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#4 2006-04-30 22:34:59

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#5 2006-05-01 03:51:24

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#6 2006-05-01 04:06:56

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#7 2006-05-01 09:18:17

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#8 2006-05-02 13:52:19

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#9 2006-05-02 20:10:24

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#10 2006-11-29 04:51:13

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#11 2006-11-29 15:21:39

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

#12 2006-11-30 01:47:13

Re: [contrib] Textgarden = good, themes/templates = bad

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