[wiki] German TextBook section

Skubidu · 2006-04-25 13:13:47

I think were are mixing different things:

First of all I think it is a problem if everybody is forced to write in English. It is – as Alex mentioned – very exhausting for someone who is not a native speaker. Writing tutorials and documentations is a complex thing and it is not that easy for everybody to do this in English. I can understand the reasons why everything should be present in English but I think this concept is one of the reason why not more people are contributing to the TextBook. If the TextBook should be consistent in all parts, it would be easier to create a complete english version first and simply translate it afterwards.
The other topic we are talking about is structure. How do I find things in TextBook, how could we guide people from different countries speaking different languages through the documentation. I think one step forward would be some kind of multilingual frontpage as mentioned here.

I think Textpattern needs a official documentation: It needs to be in different languages and it needs to exist under one umbrella. That should be TextBook, because it’s the only website that could be called some kind of “official”. If different languages are organized on subdomains or anyhow is secondary. The main question is how languages are organized, how they interact with each other.

Before we try to give an answer on this question, I’ve got another one:
Do we agree, that there should be one official documentation? (The language problematic should be ignored at this time!)

If we agree, we should should start answering the first question.

alexandra · 2006-04-25 13:19:40

Do we agree, that there should be one official documentation?

Absolutely.

Skubidu · 2006-04-25 13:35:13

Absolutely.

Okay! That’s good :)

How do we proceed? We’ve got two opposite positions:

Destry, who says that everything should be consistent and should be in written in English at least.
Alex, who says that we should have one place with different documentation versions in different languages.

So here are my 2 cents:
I think both positions are extrem. The first one would be practicable if someone was paid for it or if we had a complete english version. The second one would be easy to manage for the different languages but it would get inconsistent and confusing where and how to find things. (For those speaking German: Es besteht die Gefahr des Wildwuches, bei dem keiner mehr weiß, wo was und in welcher Sprache zu finden ist.) My proposal would be to create a multilingual frontpage (as mentioned above) and to define parts of the TextBook that need to be consistent (tag list, instal informations) and others that need not (e. g. tutorials).

Last edited by Skubidu (2006-04-25 13:40:52)

alexandra · 2006-04-25 16:05:50

I agree on (design) consistency and a multilingual entrance page.
I don´t agree on language mixes like the right sidebar in english and the main page in german. That is confusing. And i do not agree with the current content structure. Very confusing.

Some content will be consistent by nature (tag list, instal info.) but i do not regard the english solution to be great, honestly sorry to say that – but i am far not the first one mentioning that.

Skubidu · 2006-04-25 17:54:13

And i do not agree with the current content structure. Very confusing.

So please make some suggestions how to improve the structure.

hakjoon · 2006-04-25 19:38:41

alexandra wrote:
I don´t agree on language mixes like the right sidebar in english and the main page in german. That is confusing. And i do not agree with the current content structure. Very confusing.

This is a limitation of the software, and it does look like it’s trying to be addressed in future releases. Right now the interface language is determined by the user (so for example you can set your interface to always be in german), but the content language is set by the content (not sure if that made sense).

Last edited by hakjoon (2006-04-25 19:39:03)

Destry · 2006-04-26 16:06:37

hakjoon wrote: (so for example you can set your interface to always be in german), but the content language is set by the content.

So it’s easy then: if a person wants all German, they set their user preferences to German (which takes care of the interface navigation stuff) and they read the German section of the wiki (which is the user content stuff). As far as language consistency of the interface goes, that appears to be a very viable solution to the problem. I’m I overlooking something? If not, then it will just need to be made clear in the wiki Help that the ability to set language preference is available.

As for structure and organization…please continue discussion of such issues in the International TextBook thread, as I’m following up there myself. I don’t want to chase five threads on the same subject. Use this thread to keep blowing steam.

alexandra wrote: In fact he once wrote in his blog: he never will learn and communicate in french.

I don’t recall saying it exactly like that (and let’s not pursue it), but in any case I’m certainly proving it wrong, as I am reading, writing, and speaking French more and more each day; not perfectly, mind you, but I’m holding my own. Frustrating at times, no doubt.

I see you guys clinging to this concept of it has to be English only. I’ve already explained how that came about (by consensual discussion, who by the way David Molliere was in on and thought was a good idea, since you’re throwing his name around) and I’ve mentioned at least twice now that you don’t have to add content in English first anymore. The horse is dead, stop beating it. The best we can do is ask that you try and find the time to translate, we can’t make you.

Here’s what I was hoping people would understand. By translating content to English you help everybody, as English is the conduit between all languages in this documentation effort. For example, can Alexandra (for example) translate from German to French? No, but she can translate from German to English and then Jeremie (for example) can translate from English to French. See my point? If you don’t, forget about it, I’m done trying to explain it.

alexandra wrote: don´t mix trade companies and OS projects

First of all, I have no idea what you’re even talking about, and I don’t think you do either. Second, I could come up with several examples of non-profit organizations, associations, and societies — not trade companies — that contain various Working Groups that are composed of distributed, international people all working together for the sake of various interests and community good. And you know what, we don’t have to go very far out of the circle either, maybe the Rights and Permissions Work Group rings a bell? By the way, what language do you guys work in by default in that group?

<strong>@Sencer:</strong> Thank you for understanding the working group concept. The thing is, what I was proposing with the IDWG isn’t much different that what exists right now; the language reps have been encouraged to serve the very same function all along. I’m just trying to shine light on it again so that I can perhaps pass the baton of decision making. This is the only way I foresee doing it, for better or worse.

alexandra · 2006-04-28 08:12:45

First of all, I have no idea what you’re even talking about..

Okay, i´ll help you :)

OS versus proprietary software, including researches on OS communities
Google is your friend here: google for ‘open source researches’. Once you read a couple of scientific well done researches on OS versus software companys you know what i am talking about.

Please go over to the french forum and post 6 month everything from now on in french and contribute to TB only in french! Then we set up a french TB administration and you are obliged to follow instructions only in french. Once you done that, we can talk about foreing languages and their obstacles.
p&r group conversation was held to a very broad extend in german via email by saccade and me – just to let you know

I do not mind arguments and different opinions but refuse to argue on a personal level. I hope you and me agree on leaving personal levels aside as you intend in your previous post. Thanks.

Last edited by alexandra (2006-04-28 08:14:04)

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#13 2006-04-25 13:13:47

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#14 2006-04-25 13:19:40

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#15 2006-04-25 13:35:13

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#16 2006-04-25 16:05:50

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#17 2006-04-25 17:54:13

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#18 2006-04-25 19:38:41

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#19 2006-04-26 16:06:37

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

#20 2006-04-28 08:12:45

Re: [wiki] German TextBook section

Board footer