Improving TXP Image Management

hakjoon · 2006-03-17 13:51:29

ma_smith wrote:
What would you say to a rough draft of a proposal in the next two weeks? I could start on one, and that way, even if it takes months, we’ve got something to start ammending?

We could probably start on the Image insert functionality and Image tags.I would still like to see more info on or about the images tab and how it is lacking. That seems ot have been kind of forgotten and for me at least no matter how great and whiz bang a new insert image plugin is I still think we need the images tab, simple because it offers more screen real estate then anything in the write tab will ever have.

The write tab integration and the new images tags can both be prototyped and tested as plugins and then be submitted to the core if we want to. The images tab however would have to either be straight core or start out as a hack it would just be too hard to deal with otherwise.

So how should the images tab improve? Submit examples that work well (photostack, plogger, coppermine any of those) and what you like about them. What could be better.

Last edited by hakjoon (2006-03-17 13:52:44)

Skubidu · 2006-03-17 14:10:38

So how should the images tab improve? Submit examples that work well (photostack, plogger, coppermine any of those) and what you like about them. What could be better.

There should be a possibility to upload more than one image – see aba_image_import or plogger
It would be nice, if exif statements could be imported (and be accessible with txp tags <txp:image_exif show="date" />)
It should be possible to narrow the display of images down to certain categories, years, months (“virtual folders”).
The images list should be sortable (name/category: a-z <> z-a)
It would be nice to have sidebar with all the image categories so you could easily drop an image in a new category (AJAX, script.aculo.us)
It would be a real improvement not to be limited to 1 category.
improvement of the basic image manipulation – see glx_admin_image

Last edited by Skubidu (2006-03-17 14:12:32)

jameslomax · 2006-03-17 15:05:55

I’ve got two photo-based txp sites, so I’m maybe a useful person to consider ;-)
I’m not a coder though, so anything I say is without reference to the implications of building it!

Bulk upload is very important. For one of my sites, if I didn’t have aba_image_import I could not have run it in txp – its as simple as that, and as critical as that. aba-_image is nice, but flawed: for me, it currently uploads not one but two images, so I then have to go round deleting them. Fortunately, I had to upload the majority and now just a few more at a time, every 2/3 weeks, so it’s no big deal. But for bulk image upload/handling, on a large scale, people simply won’t use txp at the moment.

I’m not too concerned about EXIF data. In fact it doesn’t worry me at all. I know its a bit of a ‘tradition’, and it gets used by people, but in fact it adds little if anything to a photo site, except for people who dig all the technical details. I’d say, include it maybe but give that a very low priority in terms of building it.

Categories, date and name navigation should probably be in-built from the beginning.

An integral ‘insert’ page is very important, so you’re not clicking around different parts of txp which is incredibly user-unfriendly, and basically means people won’t use txp for image-centric sites. A navigable drop and drag sidebar sounds great!

Auto resize is also critical. glx_admin_image does the job, but its not easy to adjust the resize paramters – 160 pixel width for thumbs, whatever.

The Wordpress image handling is quite nice and could be used as a model, or for inspiration – but maybe make the txp version even better ;-)

One minor but important factor that should be considered, if relevant: the one column image display in txp is very bad design: lots of unused white space, and you have to scroll far too much. Multiple columns would improve it.

Automatic gallery generation would be nice: or if not auto, then auto-friendly. Don’t know what happened to Marshall/Greenrift’s AlbumPattern, but there might be some useful code and ideas in there……also, check out Gallery and Coppermine for ideas about the inerface and functioning.

Last edited by jameslomax (2006-03-17 15:07:04)

maarten · 2006-03-17 16:06:51

Although it’s very easy to install plugins I believe a better image management solution should be part of the core. My list of plugins is getting too long :)

hakjoon · 2006-03-17 16:10:55

maarten wrote:
Although it’s very easy to install plugins I believe a better image management solution should be part of the core. My list of plugins is getting too long :)

My idea has always been to prototype as much as we can as plugins or hacks and then submit relatively feature complete and tested versions as patches to the core. Plugins and hacks means we (community) can develop them and provide the work to the core team. If we start at the core form day one it means more work for Sencer, zem and Kusor.

Unless you all want to test everything using SVN patches. The long term goal is for the results of all this to go into the core hopefully, although at this point I think something of this magnitude would have to wait for Crockery for it to be added.

Skubidu · 2006-03-17 16:20:40

I forgot some things in my last posting:

It would be nice to have the possibility to view the last added images (if you have many images it can be very annoying having to browse through long list or category menus just to get to the latest image you added
This would help with another problem, too: If you uploaded an image, and edited it’s properties, you will be sent to the main image tab after hiting “submit”. If you have many images you probably don’t see your image on the main tab, because it is on an other page of the image list. This is annoying, too, if you are looking for the image id or someting to insert it in an article.
If nothing changes in the way Textpattern handles images (id > 1.jpg, 2.gif, …), it would be helpful to see the image id anywhere.

On the write tab:

I would like to see a preview of the article image on the write tab.

Last edited by Skubidu (2006-03-17 16:22:03)

hakjoon · 2006-03-17 16:23:30

Skubidu wrote:
I would like to see a preview of the article image on the write tab.

I have been thinking about this too. I think it would make article image a lot more useful.

maarten · 2006-03-17 16:51:15

hakjoon wrote:
My idea has always been to prototype as much as we can as plugins or hacks and then submit relatively feature complete and tested versions as patches to the core. Plugins and hacks means we (community) can develop them and provide the work to the core team. If we start at the core form day one it means more work for Sencer, zem and Kusor.
Unless you all want to test everything using SVN patches. The long term goal is for the results of all this to go into the core hopefully, although at this point I think something of this magnitude would have to wait for Crockery for it to be added.bq.

Agreed of course, I realize that this is not something that can be added easily.

Last edited by maarten (2006-03-17 16:53:34)

Bastian · 2006-03-17 16:55:36

I opened a wiki page for Img Wizard, to not break the party here.

I will add more informations in next days, but feel free to edit it and include your thought and ideas.

maarten · 2006-03-17 17:07:27

Another feature I would find useful under the image tab is to have the size of the image displayed (and maybe category).

squaredeye · 2006-03-17 18:19:58

Skubidu wrote:

There should be a possibility to upload more than one image – see aba_image_import or plogger

I have been using WEBGUI at work (a plainblack product). It uses a feature where you use a typcial “choose” button, find your image on your machine, and as soon as you click “yes, or open” it automatically generates the next field for you to do the same thing. This might be nice to do multiple uploads that don’t require FTP?

On the other hand, that might not work with PHP’s file size limit?

It would be nice, if exif statements could be imported (and be accessible with txp tags <txp:image_exif show="date" />)

Agreed. I think this is a necessary feature if TXP is to encourage more image friendliness, as more and more folks are getting serious about photoblogging.

It should be possible to narrow the display of images down to certain categories, years, months (“virtual folders”). …* The images list should be sortable (name/category: a-z <> z-a)

Absolutely, a basic MUST. Even a search function like that found in the article tab would be helpful.

It would be nice to have sidebar with all the image categories so you could easily drop an image in a new category (AJAX, script.aculo.us)

While AJAX is great, I wonder how much the devs will be “into” implementing it, as there has been little move in that direction thus far (but I may just be naive there?) What say you peeps? Otherwise, you could have a “apply checked images to “xxxx” category? or something like that? I also have these questions about Bastian’s img wizard . I personally LOVE it, but I wonder what it feels like overall to have only one part of the install that uses AJAX driven functionality? Just thinking out loud here?

It would be a real improvement not to be limited to 1 category.

agreed. The possibilities of having a more robust image tag (set) which likens it to article tags would help in sorting and displaying to have multiple categories, or to choose to apply the images to categories available in the “article categories” menu?

improvement of the basic image manipulation – see glx_admin_image

Also agreed. I think there are some basic image manipulation programs like pxn8 (I just ran across it, though, I’ve never used it) that can do a lot of that via a browser, although that might be WAY to fancy, its probably good to go overboard and then backoff before the final proposal is written?

It would be nice to have the possibility to view the last added images (if you have many images it can be very annoying having to browse through long list or category menus just to get to the latest image you added

Could this be a sorting option?

I would like to see a preview of the article image on the write tab.

WEBGUI does this too. It has decent functionality, and helps to see how things will look, but it doesn’t show padding or element styles, it only shows alignment, and you can drag and drop throughout the body field.

Like others I feel that bulk upload is extremely important. What are the thoughts on the use of FTP? Does that discourage users? Are most of the bulk uploading type of users going to know how to FTP anyway?

One HUGE request and hope I have for the image tab (if it indeed belongs there) is the option for the ADMIN to set a max width or height that scales the image proportionately, so that if I were to design a site for a customer whose web skills are as good as my knitting skills that they can place images without breaking the site. Another method for this might be to have several possible image sizes, which could be set as image types? Image 1: 300px max width: Image 2: 200px max width, Image 3: 100 max width, etc. and they could be named so that they could be related to certain parts of the site.

So that when one goes to place an image in the article, they can either choose one of “x” number of sizes/dimensions for the image, or they can place constraints on that image right there? (ultimately with an option to turn that kind of functionality off for less than savvy users – but that is a rights and permissions workgroup issue

Perhaps there could be a link next to the images which offers to place that image in the body field on the write page, or the article_image field, and takes you to that page directly, with the image placed, as you have asked it to be?

James Lomax wrote:
bq. One minor but important factor that should be considered, if relevant: the one column image display in txp is very bad design: lots of unused white space, and you have to scroll far too much. Multiple columns would improve it.

I totally agree. lets see better use of space. Any suggestions about how this layout might look? Perhaps you can come up with a mockup for this one James? Anybody? Has anybody ever seen the way that photobucket does this? maybe it could be similar?

Okay, my fingers are tired.
This is fun, we are getting somewhere. Patrick, Hope your having a good time bro.

jameslomax · 2006-03-18 01:20:29

I want to add something, which for me was a bit of a ‘brainstorm’. It was obvious all the time, but no one was saying it:

what’s the big deal with the ‘write’ tab?

I think one of the advantages of Wordpress is the interface isn’t rigidly confined to tabs at the top of the page. Its a nice, balanced layout making use of all the white space. Seems to me, txp is badly designed with those tabs and sub-tabs, leaving unused white space around the screen.

what about having an image function built into the page below the text box?

– if this becomes a really great txp development, then it deserves having some fundamental ‘space’ in the interface, like you see in Wordpress. So, not squeeze it into a sidebar, or whatever, but build it as a more fundamental component. If you want to faciliate great image usage, then that will be much better than squeezing it into the write tab (or a sidebar), when txp is already too tab-centric.

Last edited by jameslomax (2006-03-18 01:22:18)

squaredeye · 2006-03-18 01:32:27

James,
While I feel you there, I’m not sure that’s a direction I would go. I think one thing I like about the TXP install as it is now, is that things are extremely simple. I loathe wordpress, I feel like it is TOO clunky and too much going on in so many pages. KISS : Keep It Simple Stupid (the method I grew up learning, and have to constantly remind myself).
From looking at a TON of different CMS’s, and especially many at higher levels, I feel like keeping image management as robust as possible and in its own “tab” or shell or something is the most appropriate use and suits the widest audience possible. Ultimately one would like to have customization of those types of things to suit there personal or client needs, but TXP is not that, for the time being, and I wonder if it ever will be. There is a markedly different feel to TXP over WP or other systems, and I realized myself not long ago that not all CMS’s are heading toward the same goal, or are going to be used for, or in, the same way. Duh, you’re saying, I’m probably just reminding myself. Anyhow, Those are my feelings on it, but thanks for keeping the dialog going. What do others think?

Matthew

Bastian · 2006-03-18 07:21:49

While AJAX is great, I wonder how much the devs will be “into” implementing it, as there has been little move in that direction thus far (but I may just be naive there?) What say you peeps? Otherwise, you could have a “apply checked images to “xxxx” category? or something like that? I also have these questions about Bastian’s img wizard . I personally LOVE it, but I wonder what it feels like overall to have only one part of the install that uses AJAX driven functionality?

I dont know how much it will take to implement the img wizard. But all main functions will be driven by AJAX, so it should take long, because there are not many changes on client-side of the write-screen and all the AJAX stuff can be seperated in one additional file.

But i think before thinking about implement into core it should be well tested, because it would be the only [or the first] part of txp driven by AJAX.
And if make it part of txp img wizard should make use of Prototype -> Rico or whatever. Just to make sure that it still works in two years. One of the big open source JS libaries will probaly updated while the next years, nobody knows who updates my handcoded ajax functions.

So i think lets first code it as plugin, test it and test it and test it and then start thinking about implement it into core.

Skubidu · 2006-03-18 08:12:44

write tab versus image tab:

I think it is very important to keep the main article and image management separated, so we should keep the image tab. In my opinion the admin interface will stay more clear this way. As an addition for the write tab I would like to see something like Bastian’s image wizard – but that is a typical plugin for me.

Let’s keep the write tab simple, let’s keep the image tab simple but let’s improve both. If we have got a good image management on the image tab, it will be easy to create additional plugins for the write tab which interact between the articles and the images.

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#76 2006-03-17 13:51:29

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#77 2006-03-17 14:10:38

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#78 2006-03-17 15:05:55

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#79 2006-03-17 16:06:51

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#80 2006-03-17 16:10:55

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#81 2006-03-17 16:20:40

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#82 2006-03-17 16:23:30

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#83 2006-03-17 16:51:15

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#84 2006-03-17 16:55:36

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#85 2006-03-17 17:07:27

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#86 2006-03-17 18:19:58

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#87 2006-03-18 01:20:29

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#88 2006-03-18 01:32:27

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#89 2006-03-18 07:21:49

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

#90 2006-03-18 08:12:44

Re: Improving TXP Image Management

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