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#91 2006-02-24 16:19:03
- NyteOwl
- Member
- From: Nova Scotia, Canada
- Registered: 2005-09-24
- Posts: 539
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
choking laughing jdueck, you don’t work in government by any chance? :)
Obsolescence is just a lack of imagination. / 36-bits Forever! / #include <disclaimer.h>;
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#92 2006-02-24 16:48:37
- davidm
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- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
lol yeah well that sure was funny !
But not an accurate description of what we’re trying to do here… at least I believe (if someone thinks so please come here and shoot me in the head !)
.: Retired :.
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Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
Nope, it’s not :)
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#94 2006-02-24 17:23:01
- davidm
- Member
- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
Thanks Jeremie, my head is safe for now :P
<em>Following up on skubidu’s post…
Might seem off topic but I think it helps clarifying were txp stands against what I deem to be its competition (tada : not WordPress I am talking about ! You’ll see why…). Of course this is my take on things, nothing more : as such, it’s highly subjective…</em>
Skubidu wrote : I think it’s important, because Textpattern has to keep up to date and because other comparable systems have made big improvements in this area.
That’s something I had meant to emphasize and it’s nicely said… we don’t exist in a vacuum. I think some systems are catching up (EE, CMSMS and MODx are the 3 systems I would set in the same flexible/modular category, though each has weak and strong points, and to me CMSMS is still pretty young…).
How I see comparative advantage :
CMS Made Simple
BETTER THAN TXP- illimited hierachical levels (though can be achieved with txp, so I hear, and will be feature of txp 4.1)
- permission and user management
- blobs akin to forms
- templating and tag system akin to textpattern’s, though much less tags available (for now)
- user tags are in fact plugins called via tags : e.g can be placed in template and you can pass parameters in a way very similar to txp
- missing Textile ;p (as far as I know…) or Markdown
- no concept of section : templates are assigned to pages individually, conditionnal testing is more limited
- admin is clear but not as elegant as txp, and most certainly dull
- less features overall (not necessarily bad, but certainly more limited than txp)
- fewer – less stable plugins (but growing fast)
- younger than txp (wouldn’t use it in production yet)
EE
BETTER THAN TXP- multiple weblogs is very easy to set up (as good if not better than b2evolution or WordPress Mu in this respect)
- conditionnal global variables (detail here)
- custom variables is more powerful than txp (can choose type, and associate custom field group individually to weblogs)
- integrated gallery is nice (but only available in paid version)
- revisionning (utility of this might be discussed though)
- rights management and user management (both backend and frontend, pretty granular control over permissions)
- Built-in Private Messenging (can be useful for collaborative writing, as Jeremie often pointed out => Jeremie correct me if I am wrong) and mailing list
- template groups are akin to sections (but same “problem”, categories cannot be hierachically placed under template groups)
- sub-templates akin to forms
- tags are easy and readable, templating is as good as textpattern, so is standard compliance.
- plugins are called via tags : e.g can be placed in template and you can pass parameters in a very similar way
- not opensource (but now, free core)
- urls are not as flexible and search engine friendly as txp (based on path info. To EE users : yeah I know, can be tweaked with rewrite rules, but more complicated)
- admin is ugly and way too heavy (though better laid out than before)
- fewer plugins (under 90, most of them adding limited features…)
- modules are very late and scarce (forum and galery were long overdue… and feeling lonely !)
MODx
BETTER THAN TXP- custom fields (aka Template Variables) : you can choose any type and any number of custom fields, which are linked to templates
- frontend editing : QuickEdit module is way more advanced than anything I have seen so far
- illimited hierarchical levels (tree based structure, documents can be made into “folders” => some are against this, but useful)
- permission and user management (backend and frontend access, though a bit complicated system => will change soon)
- content-type for web documents can be of any mime-type
- CSS are parsed by MODx : kind of “native” server side CSS => you can have global variables and snippets (=plugins in txp) usable in CSS
- chunks usable in CSS (very useful to have re-usable bits of CSS code => just like for HTML pages)
- dbAPI and API for developpers, helps building custom solutions fast
- chunks are akin to forms (re-usable bits of content)
- tags can be used the same way txp does (though less intuitive syntax ugly & and `)
- snippets are called through tags, but with an additionnal built-in capability to call it cached/uncached
- can use Textile or Markdown
- Admin is bloated and ugly (inherited of Etomite => will change soon), with javacript
- if you don’t disable it, script.aculo.us library is bulking page weight (and it’s necessary to use QuickEdit. This said, AJAX library is not freezed : moofx is a candidate for example)
- Fewer plugins/modules/snippets (though growing fast and high quality stuff => not buggy and great features added)
- still young, less mature than txp though more potential (but it’s a framework… )
Last edited by davidm (2006-02-24 17:51:49)
.: Retired :.
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#95 2006-02-24 17:54:52
- alexandra
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- From: Cologne, Germany
- Registered: 2004-04-02
- Posts: 1,370
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
@jdueck lol lol lol …
@David
Brilliant summary David! Thanks for that. Such comparisons should go into dev´s roadmap discussions. Very valuable.
- first steps are made towards a ThemeEngine
- elements (Zem reported about)
- sub
categoriessections will come - Kusor is working on XML-RPC
- Rights & Permission (we work on a paper)
My concern is, TXP lacks of coordination in many regards. F. e. such summaries as Davids above should go to a development coordinator/ dev coordinating group. It should be discussed and transformed.
Last edited by alexandra (2006-02-24 18:06:34)
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Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
davidm wrote:
Built-in Private Messenging (can be useful for collaborative writing, as Jeremie often pointed out => Jeremie correct me if I am wrong) and mailing list
I don’t think private messaging is that useful. Nice for some people, but far below the needed feature list in my opinion.
For collaborative work, even very basic, it’s more like a per article & per usergroup thread (forum thread, or parallel backend comment thread if we want to re-use existing TXP features) is imo the top thing needed.
Email is 99% of the time more effective than private messaging.
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Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
alexandra wrote:
subcategories will come
Subsections you meant? Subcategories already exist (but aren’t handled in the frontend).
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#98 2006-02-24 18:11:06
- alexandra
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- From: Cologne, Germany
- Registered: 2004-04-02
- Posts: 1,370
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
Thanks Jeremie, corrected.
[btw i did forget: TXP Blogmap will come within hours and a Biz Map will come too, hopefully. At least Bastian is working on the Biz Map to support TXP related services. And: TXP Mag got revamped. Hey i did do my share of work, didn´t i ;)]
Last edited by alexandra (2006-02-24 18:14:48)
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Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
@ David: Thank you for this comprehensive comparison!
Alex & Jeremie: I think it should be subSECTIONs, too.
edit: Alex was faster ;o)
Last edited by Skubidu (2006-02-24 18:16:17)
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#100 2006-02-24 18:24:06
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
@davidm: great comparision!
davidm wrote:
MODx
BETTER THAN TXP
<ul><li>custom fields (aka Template Variables) : you can choose any type and any number of custom fields, which are linked to templates</li></ul>
Arent this exactly the same as our simple, well-known and beloved forms?
A TXP form is like a custom field, and you can re-use it in templates. You can create any number. Don know about the “type” attribute. Type attribute in TXP forms is just for categorizing (article, misc, link, etc).
Last edited by maniqui (2006-02-24 18:25:22)
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#101 2006-02-24 18:37:57
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
Template Variables are more like Custom fields on steroids. Something like this would allow you to customize the write tab on a section by section basis to have fields that match the type of input that they are expecting.
- Have a section in which you need 3 writing areas? Create a textarea TV
- checkbox group to determine public or admin plugin? Checkbox TV with public and admin as an option.
This is without even touching stuff like @bindings which let you pull the options from DB queries. It’s very very powerful, and something that I would love to see added. It would basically let you do what the RightFields plugin for Movable Type let’s you do.
Shoving is the answer – pusher robot
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#102 2006-02-24 18:46:54
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
Textpattern is off-track? I missed that memo. When will my website stop working?
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#103 2006-02-24 18:59:38
- davidm
- Member
- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
Jeremie wrote:I don’t think private messaging is that useful. Nice for some people, but far below the needed feature list in my opinion.
I was thinking about those SPIP vs Textpattern discussion, must have been private boards then…
hakjoon : thanks for the nice explanation of TVs ;D
I could go into detail and expand (like talk about INHERIT’s power) but that would be off track ;p
@Ramanan: lol, great joke, yeah true the title could be misleading… txp is not off track itself, but the community certainly is a bit adrift and missing directions…)
Last edited by davidm (2006-02-24 19:18:30)
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#104 2006-02-24 19:33:04
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
David sums up a few systems pretty well but there are so many out there and many more coming online soon.
At my count, there are 50 CMS’s, 30 Portals and 21 Blogs with stable code. That’s 101 Open Source systems that can be used to create a web presence, with about 15 more waiting to come out of beta.
Adding features to Textpattern to stay on par with EE, would be suicidal. When EE came out, it’s admin interface was a thing of beauty. Now, it’s so bloated with features that it takes forever to add an article.
What I like about Textpattern is the light nature of the code base, how quickly I can enter an article and how fast it renders pages. Yes, there are things that can be added to Textpattern to make it easier for the user, but I’d like to see the focus on the user base instead of what the competition is doing.
We Love TXP . TXP Themes . TXP Tags . TXP Planet . TXP Make
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#105 2006-02-24 19:34:11
- alexandra
- Member
- From: Cologne, Germany
- Registered: 2004-04-02
- Posts: 1,370
Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !
> ramanan wrote:
> Textpattern is off-track? I missed that memo. When will my website stop working?
pretty soon, ramanan – though according to jdueck there is hope everything will be on track for 2009 again ;)
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