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#13 2006-02-22 22:29:08

davidm
Member
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 719

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

alexandra wrote: TXP should be able to grow from all members of the community that make additions to the system for to meet their needs Even in my native language i couldn´t express it in a better way than hakjoon did above :)

Agreed but what happened to Hakjoon’s great post ?
Deleted ?


.: Retired :.

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#14 2006-02-22 22:29:08

Skubidu
Archived Plugin Author
Registered: 2004-10-23
Posts: 611
Website

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

> wet wrote:

> In the long run, one has to make a living. So for me, the key question is: How can one make a living by contributing to Textpattern instead of doing billable work for clients?

Well, that’s a general problem of OpenSource. I think it’s becoming easier with more people caring about different parts of the core of Textpattern so that there is not only one person the development is depending on.
There are many people contributing plugins – there is some really good stuff. I think it’s important to not only increase the number of plugins but to improve Textpattern’s core features. I think it’s not the problem that there are to less people having time to develop new features, but there is no guideline how to contribute.

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#15 2006-02-22 22:31:22

Skubidu
Archived Plugin Author
Registered: 2004-10-23
Posts: 611
Website

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

> alexandra wrote:

> TXP should be able to grow from all members of the community that make additions to the system for to meet their needs

I agree with that, too! I think this could be the roundup of our initial posting.

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#16 2006-02-22 23:57:59

hakjoon
Member
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
Website

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

I deleted my post. Last time a discussion like these happened a lot of my thoughts got interpreted completely wrong and things went in a direction that almost had me going elsewhere. After I posted I feared it potentially going that way again, so I decided to remove it.

Plus I thought davidm hit my points better then I had.

Last edited by hakjoon (2006-02-22 23:58:36)


Shoving is the answer – pusher robot

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#17 2006-02-23 00:28:54

davidm
Member
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 719

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

Thanks for making your deleting your post clear, hakjoon.

I thought your post added complementary ideas and interresting point of view, but I respect your second thoughts. This debate could get rough and sometimes you’re not in the mood for the potential b*llshit around that… this being said, your post was a testimony that we’re not just a bunch of 3 people running amok here ;) (though I have to admit the user name I came up with for the collective post was provocative humour, txpERT not standing for txp experts but for txp <strong>E</strong>mergency <strong>R</strong>esponse <strong>T</strong>eam ;p)

Last edited by davidm (2006-02-23 00:35:40)


.: Retired :.

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#18 2006-02-23 01:16:11

hakjoon
Member
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
Website

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

I definitely agree with the thoughts behind this initiative and I see it as a testimony to how much the users care about TXP, so count me as a 4th person running amuck :)

I didn’t want the valid issues that are being brought up sidetracked because I didn’t chose my words correctly.

Also on this subject

anyone can sell services based on textpattern, or build a hosting service, or anything they might imagine doing with it.

This seems to be exactly what Stuart is doing with FreshlyPressed which I think is a fantastic idea.

Last edited by hakjoon (2006-02-23 01:20:59)


Shoving is the answer – pusher robot

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#19 2006-02-23 03:08:13

neutrino
Member
From: East of the Diablo Range
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 134
Website

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

I’ll toss in my two cents reminding you all that I’m sort of a teenager in my relationship to the community and TXP (I haven’t been around TXP or CSS all that long—less than a year). My short response is that TXP feels very scattered to me.

I’ve seen a hundred great ideas (like the plugin respository and the redesign of the resources site) but there seems to be a general lack of cohesiveness in direction (I’m totally guilty here, myself—I drop in and out) both to the software and to the communal effort.

From my limited perspective this forum still feels like the core of TXP (it’s where I come to find the links to the manual and the FAQS and the Resource site (shouldn’t textpattern.com be that place?)), though numerous other TXP-related sites exist, many very important to our collective knowledge base and all “part” of the community.

What’s my point? A suggestion perhaps. Some one thing should tie TXP together for the uninitiated. A web site, one (collaboratively designed and developed) website that was a knock ‘em out, drop dead killer design AND a kick butt demo AND the numero uno PORTAL/table of contents for ALL THINGS TXP could possibily bring some cohesiveness back and at least give focus to wet’s TXP economy and a home to alexandra’s database and advertisement to developers and designers. Just simply discussing what all would go on that one site might be an interesting exercise. i.e. what would the ultimate TXP sitemap look like? I assume that was the original vision for the resource site.

I am glad you all brought this up—it was a vague icky feeling (especially after Mary left and now appears as that cat that doesn’t quite trust the food being offered (hi Mary)) but now feels like there’s hope (or at least a diagnosis) again. Very cool, txpERT. Of course, some of it really is work for all of us (the HUD auditors have been in my office for weeks).

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#20 2006-02-23 03:14:20

TheEric
Plugin Author
From: Wyoming
Registered: 2004-09-17
Posts: 566

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

Hmm. This particular subject has come up many times in regards to Textpattern.

I don’t think it’s something that is ever going to change… At least, not under the Textpattern name.

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#21 2006-02-23 04:09:19

michaelkpate
Moderator
From: Avon Park, FL
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 1,378
Website GitHub Mastodon

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

Without meaning to pile on the developers (who I think have done a fantastic job), this thread is a good example. I have seen this more than once: someone identifies a need, articulates that need, and either gets ignored (which is logical due to the amount of traffic and lack of moderators) or simply can’t convince a dev that their need has any merit (even if they submit their own patch). I am not saying that every need is worth development time, but it seems like hoping that “one of the devs needs a feature for a client project” means anything anyone wants is going to be a kind of longshot. After two years, some of have grown to accept that but not really embrace it.

I have had idol fantasies of forking the codebase more than once… definitely not something I want to do (since I don’t really know how), but…

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#22 2006-02-23 04:45:51

zem
Developer Emeritus
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-04-08
Posts: 2,579

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

simply can’t convince a dev that their need has any merit

It’s not a matter of convincing the developers of its merit. It’s a matter of convincing the developers that they ought to spend hours, weeks or months working without pay to build something, simply because someone else says they need it.

The core developers aren’t any different to anyone else on the forum in that respect. They don’t get paid to spend time here, fix bugs, troubleshoot problems, write documentation, comply with feature requests, or release new versions. We all do that in our own time.

So by all means discuss, come up with new ideas, contribute, and so on. That’s great, we could use the help. But please, when you’re talking about what someone should do, or what someone hasn’t done, remember that volunteering is supposed to be something you do, not something you do to someone else.


Alex

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#23 2006-02-23 07:21:23

wet
Developer Emeritus
From: Schoerfling, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,307
Website Mastodon

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

Assumptions:

  1. Textpattern needs contributions in various fields: From developers, technical writers, designers. So it has to be made more attractive for them.
  2. The amount of contributions is rooted in popularity and the number of people involved.
  3. Becoming popular requires incentives. Money is one of the most powerful incentive mankind has invented.
  4. Textpattern is a viable playground for developers und web professionals.
  5. Textpattern is a desert for visual designers.
  6. Textpattern’s default theme is dead ugly while even Wordpress’s default theme is satisfactory for a number of blogs (we’ve all seen enough evidence for that). New users want to change it in the minute they have finished installing.
  7. There are literally thousands of Wordpress themes to choose from, free and paid. And they are easily installed, so one could even “dress for the moment”.
  8. Designers do make money by building Wordpress themes. They are enabled to do so because Wordpress provides an infrastructure for the deployment of themes which is dedicated to the end user. No developer required. No 99 steps of instructions leading one through a complicated sequence of copy&pasting forms, pages and styles.

Conclusion:

If I had to name one thing of which I thought it would push Textpatterns popularity most I’d name a proper theme manager. No nested sections, no elements, no elaborate permission system. No admin facelift.

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#24 2006-02-23 07:29:44

hcgtv
Plugin Author
From: Key Largo, Florida
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,722
Website

Re: [feedback] How to bring txp back on track ? Let's debate !

Michael, you fork the code by just announcing the new project, then hope for volunteers.

zem, is it true that you ‘have grown increasingly concerned about TXP’s future’?

wet, yes TXP needs a proper theme manager, that’s why I’m still running the default look.

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