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#133 2005-06-25 05:33:31
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
So, for those of us ready to make templates (what can I say, I’m addicted to CSS ;)…
Do we have a final call on the categories of submissions? And what is the mechanism for submitting to TextGarden.org? For that matter, what is all this Base64 business I keep hearing about? Should I be designing a certain way for that, or is that just an encoding that gets applied later…?
After enduring years of Art School, mild mannered Owen Waring noticed some unusual changes… the constant bombardment of criticism, it seems, had altered his DNA. Half pixel pusher, half programmer, he had become…. THE BIZARTIST
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#134 2005-06-25 06:55:24
- marios
- Archived Plugin Author
- Registered: 2005-03-12
- Posts: 1,253
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
> bizartist wrote:
> So, for those of us ready to make templates (what can I say, I’m addicted to CSS ;)…
Another Drug Addict ? (Addicted to TXP and CSS ?)
⌃ ⇧ < ⎋ ⌃ ⇧ >
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#135 2005-06-25 23:01:21
- Jaro
- Member
- From: S/F
- Registered: 2004-11-18
- Posts: 89
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
After reading many different opinions on the whole idea I came to the conclusion that this should be kept as a one time contest and nothing else. Sure, the idea to bring many templates to new users which would be easy to install and ready for a content is nice but do we really want to see hundreds of same designs all over the place? Do we want to make Textpattern so widely spread that new users would simply come, download, install, look for a nice template, download, install and that’s it? I guess something like this is happening with Wordpress. And there are others that do this job well already, for all of them I will mention Blogger. Do we want Textpattern to be in the same category? From what I read from Dean’s posts and seeing how TXP is designed I don’t think he wants to take the same direction as the software mentioned above.
I have always seen Textpattern as a very unique CMS. It has its own style, it’s different, it’s pompous in a way. I think it should be kept this way. Yes, we need to attract more people to come, learn the software, use it and spread the message forward but offering default templates simply doesn’t seem the right way to go for me. I think that TXP should build upon good forum support, friendly interface and easy install. Offering ready templates is not way to go in my opinion. I may be wrong of course…
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#136 2005-06-25 23:22:49
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
Jaro: I don’t usually have the time to make templates when I’m teaching, but could not use blogger to run my site for my info processing classes. I like that I can use a template that may be common but looks nice, this allows me to spend the time needed to set up the site to work for assignments sections announcements etc and not have to spend more time just to make a template. I’m not a designer, my class website does not need to showcase my design abilities.
It sounds a bit elitist to say if you can’t design a nice looking template and css, you shouldn’t use textpattern
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#137 2005-06-25 23:47:15
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
Again, it depends on what we’re defining as a “Template”. Dean specifically used the term theme. We’re not talking about 1 xhtml file + 1 css file.
We’re talking about txp xml-embedded xhtml ‘pages’ + txp ‘forms’ + css. Yes, a theme should be a nice look and feel (good style), but the point is also to bridge a gap in the txp learning curve by offering some different methods for using textpattern to manage content.
@mary: thanks for the note. I’d rather see the theme concept built in rather than requiring a admin plugin. But if it can be done with an admin plugin, that’s just cool.
“If you build it, they will come.”
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#138 2005-06-25 23:49:17
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
>Do we want to make Textpattern so widely spread that new users would simply come, download, install, look for a nice template, download, install >and that’s it?
That sounds quite odd. I mean, I would have thought the whole point of having any software is to provide an easier solution to achieve everyday goals. What you’ve said you want, it seems, is that TXP should remain an exclusive club with a low profile. If that was the thought process from the start, would TXP even have as many users as it does now? Would anyone even bother recommend software that’s used by snobs who feel they’re too good to be considered mainstream. Not to say that’s what TXP is, but that’s the gradual impression I’m getting.
Now imagine user x comes into the forum, thinks “yeah I’ve heard some great things about TXP” only to then read he’s not actually wanted, TXP isn’t for users who want things easy – “Our Motto: If You Can’t Make It, Jump Off a Cliff”. As you say it’s pompous, and pompous can take a running leap.
>>we need to attract more people to come, learn the software, use it and spread the message forward
You can’t have your cake, eat it and then ask for more and not share it. I don’t see what the big deal with having more templates. I see the argument against actually, you don’t want every site to look the same. That’s very valid. But TXP does not come with a default template as such anyway. Not everyone has the uber skills to make something pretty. Some people, shockingly, just want to write and not faff around with building a template for the next 10 months or whatever.
Just because Kubrick was ported to umpteen OS projects does not make those projects any less useful, it does affect the progress of the development of the projects, nor their improvements. I really can’t see the logic in your argument with regards to TXP itself, after all this is a copetition of aesthetics, at the end of the day do you care more about how something looks like or how it runs?
If it’s the case that TXP wants to become an elitist boys club, then you it should be stated as such on the front page so that genuine users who are looking for a better solution to other platforms are aware that they are not welcome to use TXP. I suppose I’ll start spreading the word that user should choose TXP as a last resort, and first try WordPress,, Drupal, E107 or anything else BUT TXP, unless they’ve earned a Uni degree in Art & Design and have at leat 3 years experience with a design company who has won at least 10 awards.
Of course, I am exaggerating :)
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#139 2005-06-26 00:40:25
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
> Jaro wrote:
> Do we want to make Textpattern so widely spread that new users would simply come, download, install, look for a nice template, download, install and that’s it? I guess something like this is happening with Wordpress. And there are others that do this job well already, for all of them I will mention Blogger. Do we want Textpattern to be in the same category? From what I read from Dean’s posts and seeing how TXP is designed I don’t think he wants to take the same direction as the software mentioned above.
Good golly. How long has it been since you’ve read the home page at Textpattern.com?
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“When it comes to publishing on the internet, beginners and experts alike are met with a bothersome paradox: word processors and graphics applications allow anyone to do a pretty good job of managing text and images on a personal computer, but to make these available to the worldwide web – a seemingly similar environment of documents and destinations – ease of use vanishes behind sudden requirements for multilingual programming skills, proficiency in computer-based graphic design, and, ultimately, the patience of a saint.”
“Those who soldier on anyway may find themselves further held back by the web’s purported inflexibility with written language, with its reluctance to cope with all but the plainest of text, or by the unpredictable results brought about by using ‘WYSIWYG’ web editors.”
“Textpattern is a web application designed to help overcome these and other hurdles to publishing online, and to simplify the production of well-structured, standards-compliant web pages.”
————————————————————————-
I have always heard Textpattern described as a tool for writers. Writers who don’t have or want to bother with “multilingual programming skills, proficiency in computer-based graphic design, and, ultimately, the patience of a saint.”
We keep coming back to comparisons with Kubrick, but the fact Kubrick and the Blogger styles (and for a while, the sole MT style) are so prevalent backs the fact that 80% of the people who’d like to have a weblog really have no desire to learn the guts of how to do it. Much like those who want a car to simply get them where they want to go, not require a knowledge of fuel injection and torque ratios.
What you suggest is that Textpattern is like the old MG and other British Leyland products … you don’t want to own one unless you know how to work on one.
Last edited by reid (2005-06-26 00:41:57)
TextPattern user since 04/04/04
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#140 2005-06-26 04:01:44
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#141 2005-06-26 11:47:48
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
I just had another idea.
During the creation process at Blogger, you are offered 12 different templates (out of the entire set of 33). Part of the reason so many WordPress users stick with Kubrick is that they never even learn to use the Presentation controls and when they do, they only have a choice of Kubrick or the old default.
The best way to actually get people to choose from other templates/themes is at the very beginning. If you could choose a theme when doing a Textpattern install, it would prevent TXP from being Kubrickized.
If you have never examined the code of txpsql.php, take a moment to do so. Slighly different code around the areas that refer to txp_form and txp_page would be all it took.
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#142 2005-06-26 12:19:33
- Jaro
- Member
- From: S/F
- Registered: 2004-11-18
- Posts: 89
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
I’m not talking any elitist club here. I’m talking about using the right tool for the right job. I don’t think that you can do both well, offer a ready package solution for someone who has no idea what is CSS and still be a great tool used by top desingers like Mr. Hicks. Either way you want to go you should choose. And seeing that there are already others who developed idea of ready package for not tech savvy people (and they do it damn good – see Blogger) I see Textpattern can success on a bit different field. Also I’m not saying Textpattern doesn’t have a chance to become a wide spread blogging tool, it’s just that I personally wouldn’t like it to go that way. I wish it would be more of a light CMS than another blogging tool. That’s all. I don’t think it’s elitist.
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#143 2005-06-26 12:31:14
- davidm
- Member
- From: Paris, France
- Registered: 2004-04-27
- Posts: 719
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
Jaro, Textpattern won’t become another blogging tool. Why ? Well it’s not a blogging tool for starter, but a real publishing system. Remember what I said, that it would be nice to make templates for corporate websites and webzines as well (among many other thing you can build with textpattern). This does not aim to restrict the range of application…
Templates could be a way to allow people to start something else than blogs, because let’s face it, txp’s flexibility is hard on beginners : mastering the concepts and the tool will throw off many people. Or they will mistake txp for a blogging system (many do). This is a way to prove versatility… and encourage people to learn. How ? Well Destry said we should document the process of template (sorry, themes) creation, and add it to TextBook. That’s a great idea and a great way to teach and give back knowledge to the community, don’t you think ?
I won’t do a blogging template. I’ll do something else maybe corporate, maybe community or webzine, I don’t know.
Anyway, at some point we’ll have to stop discussing and start talking “action”, built textgarden, lay down the rules and practical aspects… I am pretty busy next week, but I’ll try to make some headway along with all interrested in making this work.
Last edited by davidm (2005-06-26 12:31:49)
.: Retired :.
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#144 2005-06-26 13:16:19
Re: TXP Template Contest : Starting a Pledge ! Will you sign up ?
When the first step is done, some kind of description might be nice. I might be interested, but not enough to read 6 pages of forum about it :-p
Mainly, is it TXP template system (TXP tags in forms, pages and the like), is it html/css template, other thing, all of these ?
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