Go to main content

Textpattern CMS support forum

You are not logged in. Register | Login | Help

#1 2021-06-25 04:43:29

gomedia
Plugin Author
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 1,357
Website

Active On, Status No

You can tell I don’t use the multi options in the Plugins tab very often, because I’ve only thought about this recently.

Some of the terminology used is inconsistent:
  • In the “Active” column, the values are Yes/No
  • in the multiple-select functionality, it offers to “Change status” Off/On

Not a biggie …

Offline

#2 2021-06-25 08:20:43

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,516
Website GitHub

Re: Active On, Status No

Good spot.

From a lexicographic viewpoint I’ve never been a fan of clicking “Yes” to turn a plugin off anyway! I find that incongruous and it’s awkward to document. I’d favour a switch here with on/off status and a better column label. As long as its state is obvious, I’m happy with whatever is clearest.

Ideas welcome from a UI/UX standpoint.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

Offline

#3 2021-06-25 10:14:46

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,512
Website GitHub

Re: Active On, Status No

Bloke wrote #330670:

Ideas welcome from a UI/UX standpoint.

We already have status string, fwiw.

Offline

#4 2021-06-25 11:12:37

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,516
Website GitHub

Re: Active On, Status No

A ‘Status’ column with some sort of on/off slider per plugin would work for me.

I’m very particular about toggle on/off sliders though. Too many of the ones out there are not fit for purpose and are confusing. e.g. if there are a few in a column and are all in one state, the indicator needs to be obvious which state the toggle is in.

Colour isn’t obvious: on/off notification with green/red background could be misconstrued because red could mean ‘danger: plugin active’.

An example: if you have 5 plugins installed and they all show OFF text with a red bg, does that mean they’re all currently on (red=danger!)? You might think that clicking the switch will cover the ‘off’ text and thus switch the plugin off? Of course, trying it out will change it green and it might then become obvious, but I don’t like the ambiguity. Plus, red/green colour blindness.

Cognitively, if you think of a physical switch on a domestic power socket, you flick the switch and sometimes a red warning light comes on. Or it reveals a red flash painted on the top edge of the switch. You press the red end to turn it off and ‘cover’ it up by moving the slider to the ‘off’ position. That kind of cognitive disconnect can be transmitted to the UI and I want to avoid it.

There are some excellent toggle sliders out there, just need to find one that works well and is obvious in either state what the outcome is now and what it will be when clicked.

Also, this is governed by a single function in textpattern.js and that is used on the Sections panel for yes/no inclusion of On default page?, etc so we’d probably need to separate those out or rethink a little, as On/Off doesn’t make sense there with the current column labels.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

Offline

#5 2021-06-25 12:00:08

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,474
Website

Re: Active On, Status No

Bloke wrote #330681:

Colour isn’t obvious: on/off notification with green/red background could be misconstrued because red could mean ‘danger: plugin active’.

Or ‘red’ means success / good luck / “go”. Asian cultures.

No fan at all of sliders, what is wrong with a pair of radio buttons ? (most sliders are just a graphical represensation of that).

I don’t like the ambiguity. Plus, red/green colour blindness.

+ 1 on both.


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

Offline

#6 2021-06-25 12:35:29

gomedia
Plugin Author
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 1,357
Website

Re: Active On, Status No

The Plugins Tab table is very loyal to its DB table but why not combine Version & Modified? Have something like “0.4 (modified)” … with a judicial use of orange of course.

I prefer “Active” to “Status” … it has more of an, er, active meaning. The yes/no radio thing sounds good.

Another inconsistency – switching active yes/off gets it’s own column but delete doesn’t. How come? Pages & Styles can be deleted individually (but strangely Forms not). Maybe put delete under Manage?

In fact why can’t each plugin have it’s own singular action (status/order/update from disk/delete), in addition to the multi-select ones at the bottom?

If space gets tight, the Description and Author columns could be combined as well.

And whilst I’m putting the cat amongst the pigeons there’re two Upload buttons on the page … Upload plugin & Upload, Install plugin & Upload.

Offline

#7 2021-06-25 14:05:16

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,516
Website GitHub

Re: Active On, Status No

The plugins panel is undergoing a revamp for 4.9 so all this is great stuff. I did consider combining version and modified but I was waiting to see what the outcome was of adding the update from plugins.textpattern.com as that’ll have an impact on what gets shuffled around.

I think deleting plugins and changing order are secondary actions for most (non-developer) people which is why it’s relegated to the multi-edit. Plus now we have the disk thing to contend with which would add extra noise to the table. We used to have an Order dropdown years ago for each plugin. Huge byte count to render them all back in the days when we didn’t have pagination. on that panel. Now it’s more standardised, well, it could make a comeback maybe.

As for Forms, again, lots of clutter to add delete buttons as there are usually way more Forms than Pages/Styles. Could be done.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

Offline

#8 2021-06-26 02:30:07

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,474
Website

Re: Active On, Status No

gomedia wrote #330689:

I prefer “Active” to “Status” … it has more of an, er, active meaning. The yes/no radio thing sounds good.

For consideration: “Enabled” with a checkbox. With checked meaning yes the plugin is enabled, in active use, etc.

And fwiw, version combined with the (modified) indicator in one column sounds actually cleaner. I am not sure if there is that much more room for de-clutering, that table is the only place where (important) information about the plugin is/can be displayed. I am certainly not partisan of adding more information & widgets if possible – at least not directly visible, e.g. the “delete” button in the multi-select is perfectly fine with me.

PS – maybe: change the order of columns: 1/plugin-name; 2/version (modified); 3/enabled; 4/author; 5/description 6/order; 7/manage


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

Offline

#9 2021-06-26 02:43:16

gomedia
Plugin Author
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 1,357
Website

Re: Active On, Status No

phiw13 wrote #330702:

For consideration: “Enabled” with a checkbox. With checked meaning yes the plugin is enabled, in active use, etc.

“Enabled” is good for me too. Also, please keep the “single click to toggle” functionality.

And fwiw, version combined with the (modified) indicator in one column sounds actually cleaner. I am not sure if there is that much more room for de-clutering, that table is the only place where (important) information about the plugin is/can be displayed.

The Author could be on a separate line under the description in the same column.

PS – maybe: change the order of columns: 1/plugin-name; 2/version (modified); 3/enabled; 4/author; 5/description 6/order; 7/manage

You read my mind!

Any to chuck another thought into the mix – some indication that the Order is different to that specified by the plugin on installation. In the same way that “modified” is a warning that the plugin is different to what was installed.

Offline

#10 2021-06-26 07:27:59

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,516
Website GitHub

Re: Active On, Status No

Hmmm, a checkbox is potentially cleaner. And a lot less ambiguous than enabled/disabled or a yes/no toggle. And easier to document (none of this “Click Yes to disable the plugin” nonsense). I like that.

The only thing we have to be mindful of is that we have the multi-edit checkboxes down the edge so we’d perhaps need to somehow differentiate them.

With regards column ordering: maybe. I think the active status toggle stayed over that side of the screen because it’s an ‘action’ like displaying help or the options so it made sense to group it. That’s why the Load Order is over there too, since it used to be a direct action selector and we just never moved it.

To handle the ‘different from original load order’ we’d need to store the value either in the database or make it a mandatory (or generated if installed from .txt) field in the manifest. Not insurmountable but we’ll need to assess whether that information is of value to most people before deciding if it’s worth implementing. I’m not sure, but I’m willing to be convinced.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

Offline

#11 2021-06-26 14:21:47

gaekwad
Server grease monkey
From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 3,627
GitHub

Re: Active On, Status No

Can we chuck some of these notes into a GitHub issue to track, please? This is useful stuff and I would prefer it not get lost. Thanks!

Offline

#12 2021-06-27 08:08:29

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,474
Website

Re: Active On, Status No

gomedia wrote #330703:

The Author could be on a separate line under the description in the same column.

That is a good point actually, would save some space horizontally. And that gave me one more idea.

Bloke wrote #330706:

With regards column ordering: maybe. I think the active status toggle stayed over that side of the screen because it’s an ‘action’ like displaying help or the options so it made sense to group it.

Hmm. The “load order” having been removed, maybe things can change.

The one argument for changing the column order is wanting to move the most important action towards the start of the row is having it visible on less large screens – easier access, no need for scrolling.

One more idea (although that might end up being more clutter): combine the plugin name with the “help | options” action on a second line in the same column.


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB