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#21 2019-10-02 12:14:41

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,296
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

Pat64 wrote #319489:

Good point for the warning message. But IMHO, only for the “View” link because it’s kind of a definitive change.

Yep, makes sense. We probably need a notion of storable “profile” for the whole set of section/theme/page/style associations (like Public, In Work etc). Then restoring the previous site state would be easy provided it is saved. Moreover, each logged in user could have its own dev set.

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#22 2019-10-02 13:01:10

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,760
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

etc wrote #319490:

Yep, makes sense. We probably need a notion of storable “profile” for the whole set of section/theme/page/style associations (like Public, In Work etc). Then restoring the previous site state would be easy provided it is saved. Moreover, each logged in user could have its own dev set.

I agree about only making the confirmation for ‘View’ (‘Live’) changes.

Intriguing about making the dev state per user. I can’t see any inherent problems with that.

But permissions might drive what we do here. For instance, one of the things I like about our current model of anyone logged in seeing dev is that all people involved in the process of bringing content and site structure to life can work on the “in dev” site if the admin (publisher/managing editor/whoever has access to Sections) switches it over.

Beforehand it was ‘soft switched’ per user whenever you worked on a particular theme. i.e if a Copy Editor was on the Pages panel and chose a new theme from the dropdown, they saw the new theme in use (if possible) when they viewed the public site.

Right now, that no longer happens. Only admins/site designers (1,2,6) can switch the theme for the Sections panel and (as of the commit yesterday) the Themes panel. This is fine and makes sense.

If, however, we bring in the notion of per-logged-in-user dev themes, we need to think carefully about who can access what. If you have a client to whom you only assign Copy Editor privs (might that happen?) so they can only create their own content, they will not be able to see the in-development site as they have no way to ‘switch’ to it. Regardless that an admin/site designer switches theirs over, the Copy Editor still sees the Live theme.

That might be far fetched, I’m not sure. But we just need to be aware of the impact of such a change. Because that could affect people’s workflow. The admin would then either need a face-to-face with the client, a web video call, or to elevate the client’s privs so they can see the dev site.


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#23 2019-10-02 14:15:38

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,296
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

Bloke wrote #319493:

If, however, we bring in the notion of per-logged-in-user dev themes, we need to think carefully about who can access what. If you have a client to whom you only assign Copy Editor privs (might that happen?) so they can only create their own content, they will not be able to see the in-development site as they have no way to ‘switch’ to it. Regardless that an admin/site designer switches theirs over, the Copy Editor still sees the Live theme.

The term “dev theme” is misleading, sorry. The idea is that only admins/designers could create (multiple) profiles and set a public one, but anyone who can preview the (currently unique) dev setup would be able to choose from all available profiles (some of them could be private, though). This choice would be per user, without affecting the public or other users setups. This way a dev could create many alternative profiles for the client to choose from. That would mean that instead of the binary Enable dev theme preview pref we would offer a list of available profiles.

Whether Copy Editors should be eligible is another question, they are more on the content rather than design side.

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#24 2019-10-02 14:43:30

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,760
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

etc wrote #319495:

I mean only admins could create (multiple) profiles and set a public one, but anyone who can see the (currently unique) dev setup would be able to choose from all available profiles

Gotcha, sorry for the confusion.

Not being facetious here. I’m genuinely curious: what’s the difference between a profile and a theme? And what features does this additional layer bring us?

Couldn’t the admin simply set up multiple themes with a ‘dev’ status. Anyone with theme editing rights (such as site designers) could work on any of the pages/forms/styles for any dev theme locally without anyone being affected.

When the theme(s) are “ready” the admin could set them to a “staging” status. They then become available to other logged-in users to choose from so all users – content creators, clients and so forth – can see the themes in use before one is chosen to go live.

Once agreed, the admin can then set the chosen theme live using either the Section on Themes panel.

EDIT: I admit that clients are likely to be Managing Editors so they’d be able to choose dev themes too at any time so I’m not sure if this is workable or whether we need to introduce a ‘client’ role and decide on suitable permissions.

Last edited by Bloke (2019-10-02 14:46:15)


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#25 2019-10-02 14:58:03

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,296
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

Bloke wrote #319497:

I’m genuinely curious: what’s the difference between a profile and a theme? And what features does this additional layer bring us?

The main difference (imo) is that a profile can mix multiple themes (one per section), so switching is easier. Suppose that we have two concurrent setups:

A:
    Section 1 -> Theme 1 -> Page 1
    Section 2 -> Theme 2 -> Page 1
B:
    Section 1 -> Theme 2 -> Page 2
    Section 2 -> Theme 1 -> Page 1

Currently you need either two multi-edit actions to switch from A to B or two new themes combining Theme 1 and Theme 2 parts. Now, if we stored these setups as profiles (without duplicating themes data, of course), the switch would be a breeze.

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#26 2019-10-02 15:00:02

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,760
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

etc wrote #319498:

The main difference (imo) is that a profile can mix multiple themes (one per section), so switching is easier.

Good point. Like it.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#27 2019-10-02 15:08:43

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,296
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

If themes were global (not per section) then there would be no need for profiles. Easier to handle, but less flexible and too late anyway.

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#28 2019-10-02 15:15:38

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,296
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

Public profiles could even be made selectable via URL, which is nice for a themes site – no need to create a section per theme for showcase.

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#29 2019-10-02 15:23:25

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,760
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

etc wrote #319500:

If themes were global (not per section) then there would be no need for profiles. Easier to handle, but less flexible and too late anyway.

I like being able to set a Theme per Section but, yeah, you could already sort of do that by using a different Page/Style template and being very careful with your Forms. Themes just allow people to bundle that up and apply it across multiple Sections more easily with less fear of breakage, and share them. Plus all the workflow benefits we’re (you’re!) building.

So how do you see the workflow of this profile mechanism being realised? Conscious of not trying to drown users in nomenclature. Especially given that we’re going to be thinking about how to expand themes to include prefs and plugins and (perhaps) content, etc at some point.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#30 2019-10-02 15:23:56

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,760
Website

Re: Lack of global theme association vs all other sections on logout

etc wrote #319501:

Public profiles could even be made selectable via URL, which is nice for a themes site – no need to create a section per theme for showcase.

Oooh, now this I like.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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