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#21 2014-05-15 18:29:08

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 7,271
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

JimJoe wrote #280829:

I have been leary of Bitcoins since I first heard of them. Who is behind it ? Virtual currency isn’t much different than fiat money. But at least my paper money is in my pocket or bank account. (Yes, I know that the US Federal Reserve actually has my money, not all of it stored at my bank.) I just don’t trust Bitcoin.

I have my full doubts about the money system, banks definitely included as recent history proved. One thing is for sure, money is a temporary possession and it’s more often than not, linked with debt.


Yiannis
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#22 2014-05-16 09:46:36

Gocom
Plugin Author
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 4,530
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

In Finland over 60% of GDP is dept. It grows by 5% annually, or in other words currently by 12 400 EUR every fucking minute. But it’s fine… right?

In post-industrial economy everyone can work in service sector, right? Let’s not produce anything, but buy from oversees and sell locally. Wild currency just appears, like in that 90’ hit, Pokémon.

We don’t have anything to worry, other states will bail us out. Like we bailed… wait never mind.

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#23 2014-05-16 12:20:10

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,170
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

Yiannis, look at Finland’s NIIP before sending Jukka your bitcoins. And poor Swiss, with 229% debt…


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#24 2014-05-16 14:09:59

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,196
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

Isn’t Finland’s economy still quite closely tied to the fortunes of Nokia? We also had the Nokia UK headquarters in my hometown but it’s closed now and relocated to London, lots of local jobs gone – although on a positive spin it’s left quite a highly skilled workforce, who can probably find new work quite easily.

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#25 2014-05-16 15:13:49

zero
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2004-04-19
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

I’m not quite sure exactly how Bitcoin will fit in but here’s the clearest info about economy I’ve ever come across. It’s a video that I couldn’t find a way to pause, so please allow yourself at least 30 minutes continuous time to view it.

Moneyweek report


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#26 2014-05-16 17:30:36

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 7,271
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

zero wrote #280864:

I’m not quite sure exactly how Bitcoin will fit in but here’s the clearest info about economy I’ve ever come across. It’s a video that I couldn’t find a way to pause, so please allow yourself at least 30 minutes continuous time to view it.

Moneyweek report

Hi Peter, I watched the video but I think that the shock doctrine is somehow more relevant in helping people form an understanding of the current way international business is carried out. 78 minutes is long but it’s definitely worth watching.

@Oleg. Because of the bank crises here I do not even have a debit card now let alone any bitcoins:)


Yiannis
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#27 2014-05-16 22:30:57

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,665
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Re: Bitcoin donation

zero wrote #280864:

Moneyweek report [the text version for those that prefer to read than watch]

All good stuff. Just don’t forget the antidote :-)

Somewhere between these two extreme viewpoints are some sensible lessons to be learned. Any system based on privately-funded printing of currency or cheap borrowing in which governments have to raise taxes to pay back just the interest on the loans/printing presses is a hiding to nowhere. None of the people that make the decisions — irrespective of party policy — are altruistic enough to not be in it for themselves. They have families, and self preservation is rule number one.

That’s why Bitcoin and its friends are important because decentralization of currency and the (eventual) stabilisation of that currency gives us — the people — the power back. As long as no one entity gains over 50% of the power.

Me? I’m aiming for zero debt as quickly as I can to reduce my attack surface. And if when the shit hits the fan, I’m taking a leaf from Iceland’s book and going to help hunt down the pillock bankers, financiers and politicians who put us here through greed. Anyone who wants to join me: line on the left, one pitchfork each…


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#28 2014-05-17 03:16:33

Gocom
Plugin Author
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 4,530
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

philwareham wrote #280863:

Isn’t Finland’s economy still quite closely tied to the fortunes of Nokia?

In plain number, but Nokia never employed that many people. Outside from testing labs, we didn’t make phones nor any components. Nokia closed its bigger research factories located in Finland back in 2012, taking away about 1,000 jobs, and by the end of the year, it had no real research factories at all in Europe.

Other issues come from paper, mines, metal and other factories that are all gone to developing countries. Within the last year, majority portion of media is gone too. No one, but Finland’s equal to BBC, YLE survived internet without losing pinkie or too.

We also had the Nokia UK headquarters in my hometown but it’s closed now and relocated to London, lots of local jobs gone – although on a positive spin it’s left quite a highly skilled workforce, who can probably find new work quite easily.

Post-Nokia has started boom startups here… well, ten or so (small country, eh). Will see how many last even five years.

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#29 2014-05-17 09:51:57

gaekwad
Admin
From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 2,496

Re: Bitcoin donation

philwareham wrote #280863:

[…] the Nokia UK headquarters in my hometown […]

When they try to demolish that building, I bet it’ll be almost impossible to knock down.

Last edited by gaekwad (2014-05-17 09:53:43)

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#30 2014-05-17 13:40:13

JimJoe
Member
From: United States
Registered: 2010-01-30
Posts: 492
Website

Re: Bitcoin donation

maniqui wrote #280842:

What you mean by “behind it”? Who is “behind the Internet”? Who is “behind culture”?

My answer: many individuals: entrepreneurs, coders, merchants, artists, scientists, people.
Also, imo, people doesn’t use (in a pragmatic sense) stuff because someone is behind it. They just use it out of convenience. In other words, most people don’t use dollars because a government or a bank issued it, but because they know (usually by experience) that the next merchant will accept it in exchange of goods.

Well, fiat money is just created by someone who really is “behind it”.
Some prefer to call Bitcoin a concordia currency.

And Bitcoins are stored in a publicly-shared, decentralized database.
Money stored in a bank is similar to money stored in Bitcoin: it’s just information about who’s the owner of some units of currency.

But that is a definition provided by bitcoin.

To me, fiat is money that someone claims is worth something, but has nothing but their word it is worth that.

After reading the concordia definition page, it comes across to me as fiat money. It is worth a certain amount, because a group of people says it has that worth.

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