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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
@wet
Yeah, we have literally just dropped the titles onto the page at the moment, no extra styling or layout has been done on them as yet.
@destry
Actually, that’s the reverse of what I was saying. The title should be there by default but we will provide a way to easily hide them if power users don’t want them to be visible.
Last edited by philwareham (2012-06-13 12:18:36)
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#77 2012-06-13 12:09:49
- uli
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
I just stumbled upon this topic from early 2009 (In a nutshell: The quintessence there is a general concordance that TXP’s admin lacks a link to the documentation.) May I bring this issue to your attention again, it’s so easily solved!
In bad weather I never leave home without wet_plugout, smd_where_used and adi_form_links
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
@uli
OK, I think I could probably do something about that. I quite like the way WordPress handles this, by having a drop down on the WP logo which gives access to:
- about WP
- WP website
- documentation
- support forums
Another way would be an extra tab in the nav menu, not sure I like that idea though (and it wouldn’t work with classic theme’s tab metaphor either).
Note that the header/navigation design is dependant on the theme you use, so that has to be taken into consideration.
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
I also like the idea of a dropdown but I think the “about” link is superfluous if a link to the txp website is included
Yiannis
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
Similar to what Colak is saying, you’ve got to think about the context too…what stage it’s needed. While links to docs is spot on, About info certainly isn’t because at that point the person has long since bought into trying Txp and nobody will ever use the link. In that light, I really don’t see any reason for a link to .com either, unless it’s somehow tied with downloading the latest release, and even then it’s only good if that is activated automatically; only when there is a new release against what somebody is currently using. Could that be an auto-message that pops-up, or something?
Regarding docs and context… it’s one thing to have a link to the wiki, but it’s a hundred times better to have the admin-side help tips point to the specific wiki locations where the UI elements/functions in question are described. That’s really what’s needed. There are a few help topics like that now, but there’s also a lot of holes, last time I bothered looking.
Last edited by Destry (2012-06-13 14:52:02)
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
@destry
Can you give me an idea of the wiki help topics you talk of?
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
Destry wrote:
it’s one thing to have a link to the wiki, but it’s a hundred times better to have the admin-side help tips point to the specific wiki locations where the UI element/function in questions is described
Assuming the wiki document in question has been translated into the target language. The only major advantage that the RPC server has over the wiki is that it can look to see if the target language content is available and serve it. If not, it looks for an English item and serves that as fallback. If that fails it gives up and (should, but doesn’t yet) offer a nice link to request that the inconvenienced person offers their services as translator!
If the wiki can be configured to offer the three-tier fallback in case a document isn’t available in a given language, then by all means let’s explore that.
Last edited by Bloke (2012-06-13 14:54:58)
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
@Bloke,
Ah right. Well, maybe what’s needed then — and it obviously is needed because the admin-side help tips have always been hit or miss — is first an inventory of all the help tips in the UI, and then a follow-up execution maneuver to ensure those specific tips are indeed there in English and pushed for in other languages too.
If not that, then the inventory could be used to directly look at the help that’s currently written and determine if it can be written better directly in place.
Would any of that make sense against the RPC, whatever that is?
@Phil – I think Stef might have nullified my moment of genius.
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
I think we are confusing help and documentation here. The tooltips provide quick tips, and IMHO the RPC is totally fine for that task.
For further documentation, either a link to the full documentation, and/or expand the RPC to support help on specific sections. Again going back to WordPress (which remember was redesigned at v3 by Happy Cog – who know a thing or two about design), they have a pull down on each main section to provide further help. They still have the link in the top bar to get to the complete documentation site.
@destry
Yes, an audit of the current help tips would be very welcome. Going forward, if we do inject help into the admin-side modals via JSONP, then all those RPC tips would need to be redone anyway.
Last edited by philwareham (2012-06-13 15:08:26)
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
Happy cog… what’s that? A drunk bloke?
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
Destry wrote:
Could that be an auto-message that pops-up, or something?
Unless there was a way of permanently disabling that I would feel that a pop-up message very obtrusive. I nevertheless agree with you that it would be cool if there was a method to alert the “publisher” that a new version is available.
Yiannis
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NeMe | hblack.art | EMAP | A Sea change | Toolkit of Care
I do my best editing after I click on the submit button.
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
Yeah, pop-up was a poor choice of words. What I mean is just some kind of notification process, and unobtrusive is best. For example, on my mail icon, I get a number for new mail in my inbox. Maybe it could be something low-fi like that, but visible enough to actually be useful as a message.
And we can admit that these would really be targeted to client’s of Txp designers delivering custom sites who are later left to their own for updating, etc. Sites can go a very long time without being updated (security issue) because nobody thinks to do it. This could be helpful in that context, get people thinking abou it.
Last edited by Destry (2012-06-13 15:37:51)
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
I’d imagine that would be quite easy to do if/when RPC via JSONP and modals are implemented someday. A notification icon, which when clicked on brings up a modal listing the update and changelog, with a way of directing to the update download.
Anyway, keep the ideas flowing.
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
all
In 4.5.0 there is a check for a new version done on the Diagnostics page, delivered as part of the usual pre-flight check messages. While this isn’t ‘visible’ per se unless you visit the panel, it’s more visible than being tucked away on the prefs screen behind a button.
If people want this (cached-for-24-hours-or-so (or more?)) check to be performed somewhere more immediately visible then make some suggestions where it would fit. Or, as Phil says, we could delay it and do it right when we get time.
I would be tempted to do this kind of thing as part of an overall improvement for upgrading. My holy grail at the moment, for example, is Piwik. When a new version is available, a side box appears in the admin panel. If you click the upgrade link you get taken to a page that explains what’s going to happen. You get a chance to download the stuff manually and do it yourself if that’s your poison, or click a button which downloads the latest file, unpacks it for you, then moves onto a step to upgrade the DB tables. Again, it offers you the option to do it automatically and also lists the exact database function calls its going to make in a collapsible textarea so you can copy them out in case the upgrade goes tits up and you need to intervene.
In three years of using it, it’s never broken and I’ve never had to do anything manually, and I’m up-to-date within thirty seconds of clicking the Upgrade Now link. It’s fantastic. If we could ever get a slick operation like that going, I’d love it.
/me puts away his dreaming slippers
Last edited by Bloke (2012-06-13 15:53:40)
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Re: r3798, r3809, r3817: Don't Panic
Bloke wrote:
If people want this (cached-for-24-hours-or-so (or more?)) check to be performed somewhere more immediately visible then make some suggestions where it would fit. Or, as Phil says, we could delay it and do it right when we get time.
It is TEXTpattern and the page we visit most is the write page. Having said that, I think that only publishers and designers should be able to see the message and not anybody else.
I also think that the message should just be a short linked text somewhere near the bottom (something like: Update.4.6 now available)
I’m also open to alternative arguments though:)
Last edited by colak (2012-06-13 18:12:24)
Yiannis
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NeMe | hblack.art | EMAP | A Sea change | Toolkit of Care
I do my best editing after I click on the submit button.
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