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#41 2004-06-10 02:41:03

misterk
Member
From: Morris, MN
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 77
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

And why should there be a 42 in the url when it could just be the title, or even better the url only title :) I haven’t really figured out how txp rewrites its urls, but I’ve always wanted to hack around the default clean url mode – I liked MT’s handling of URI’s better. But I think that Dean will eventually help us all out with this.

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#42 2004-06-10 15:42:43

jdueck
Plugin Author
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 147
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> “I haven

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#43 2004-06-10 15:51:55

jdueck
Plugin Author
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 147
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> sorry for that, just trying to make a point.

Putting words in my mouth that say the opposite of what I meant – how does that make a point?

>more info on the importance of URIs: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI

That document doesn’t seem to condemn the use of a numeric id.

> content is able to be organized in a multitude of ways, while presentation is one dimensional. seems wrong.

You seem to have a point there.

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#44 2004-06-10 16:34:54

samuel
New Member
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 5

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> Putting words in my mouth that say the opposite of what I meant – how does that make a point?

i was just trying to show that stating your opinion without any arguments to back it up is flawed. my opposite “argument” was just as strong as yours.

> That document doesn’t seem to condemn the use of a numeric id.

the number have nothing to do with the content, they expose the software mechanism, which is a big no no.

anyway, all i can hope it that textpattern gets subsections or something to alleviate this problem soon.

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#45 2004-06-10 16:38:58

nryberg
Member
From: Minneapolis, MN - US
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 20
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> samuel wrote:

>to sum up: sure, jdueck.net/papers_journal/42/ works, but isn’t jdueck.net/papers/journal/42/ better?

Only marginally – in my opinion, once you’ve navigated to a site, the possibility of navigating it through the use of the address implies a number of things:

1) There’s a consistent addressing scheme – as you can see, there’s not. If you don’t know what to expect, the shape of the address is moot – whether you use numbers, slashes, or underscores matters not at all to the end reader. They will be looking at your page, not the address.

2) The organization of your site doesn’t make sense, and the user has to use the address to figure out where to go, or where they’ve been

3) The user doesn’t know how to edit bookmarks to read well.

4) That addresses can be multi-dimensional. They can, but only if there’s a consistent addressing scheme so that you know when you’re crossing dimensional borders.

5) and most importantly, anyone outside of site builders really cares what an URL looks like. For example – look at the address of this discussion on the forum. Did you use that to get here? I doubt it…

I fought the “clean URL” battle on my server just to get a pretty address, and you’ll be shocked to know that it didn’t matter a whit either way when I was done.

If this matters to you, by all means, go for the gusto, and rewrite Textpattern (or create a plug-in) that accomodates this preference. You can’t be the only person out there that cares about this…

Last edited by nryberg (2004-06-10 16:41:09)

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#46 2004-06-11 06:43:53

samuel
New Member
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 5

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

sigh…

let’s look at this in a much simpler way: you lose absolutely nothing when your URLs are nicer. however, you do gain, as small as it may be, a piece of organizational advantage.

in addition, you seem to big missing the ultimate bigger issue. the url ugliness is just a problem spurred by what’s lacking in textpattern. the examples i gave were two levels deep. let’s assume i want 5 levels deep, and each level having 5 subdivisions. the way it is now, i have to create many sections in the form of cereal_flakedbased_organic_crunchy_healthy. does that make sense in any shape or form?

without subsections, textpattern only works well one level deep. i see this as a serious problem.

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#47 2004-06-11 12:32:51

michaelkpate
Moderator
From: Avon Park, FL
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 1,313
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

I wrote this post about permalinks last summer.

Yet another Permalink Post

When I recently switched from Movable Type to Wordpress, I was able to do it without anyone who had linked to it being affected. Having transferred from GreyMatter to MT to WP, I value the importance of keeping the permalink as cms-free as possible.

I am planning a new site and intend to do it with TextPattern. But it is not going live until I can figure out a way to remove the id number from every URL.

Michael

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#48 2004-06-11 20:46:31

Sencer
Archived Developer
From: cgn, de
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 1,803
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

<blockquote>I value the importance of keeping the permalink as cms-free as possible.</blockquote>

I did that, too. Switched two times. And now will switch to txp for a third time. And the great thing is: All of them used IDs to identify posts, so redirecting urls is a very easy one-liner (doesn’t matter wether it’s with mod_rewrite or with a php-script or somehting else).

The hard part is switching from IDs to title-urls, or from title-urls to IDs. There is nothing intrinsically superior to either of them.

This topic right here is a nice point-to topic for explaining sections vs categories, atomic forms etc. for newbies. So IMHO it would be nice if we would keep the URL/title based discussion in one place, e.g. here: http://forum.textpattern.com/viewtopic.php?id=2035 ( title based URLs still not happening in g1.19? )

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#49 2004-06-11 21:02:49

marco
Member
From: Montreal
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 62

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> Dean wrote:

> <small>(this is me quietly whistling, looking at the ceiling)</small>

I’m going to redouble efforts on firing up the knowledgebase this weekend.

And thanks again, Joel, for your excellent ongoing work on the article.

That will be great!

I wonder if something something similar to this can be done with TxP?

It would be great for TextDrive as well.

Last edited by marco (2004-06-11 21:04:17)

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#50 2004-08-21 21:18:10

nednieuws
Member
From: The Home of Heineken
Registered: 2004-08-21
Posts: 14

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

Joel,

The document you’ve written is the single most valuable document relating to txp as it puts all the other documents in perspective. Without your document, I would’ve given up right away since the documentation of txp isn’t ready yet. Now I’m ready to digest Texpattern 101 and the tags document.

Thank you.

Last edited by nednieuws (2004-08-21 21:18:50)


Regards, Charles.

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