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#37 2004-06-09 01:07:16

samuel
New Member
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 5

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

ah, but you missed the key point i was trying to get at. i don’t want the links and additional info to be on the same page as the updates. i want a “more cereal info page” and a “more omelet info page”. i think you may have got caught up with the idea that my main page idea was the problem. i was just using that to illustrate a situation where something like this could happen.

the way it is now, textpattern can’t have any information not directly correlated with the main page (or idea). there’s no reasonable way to create delicious.com/omelets/moreinfo . no subsections limits you to delicious.com/omelets_moreinfo

see what i’m getting at? of course, if i’m completely wrong, feel free to correct me. but i don’t think i am.

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#38 2004-06-09 01:14:31

tinyfly
Member
From: Dallas, Texas
Registered: 2004-05-10
Posts: 462
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

I really want subsections. I don’t use categories that much and having subsections that allow URLs that samuel is talking about would be great.

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#39 2004-06-09 14:02:27

jdueck
Plugin Author
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 147
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

Personal opinion: people nowadays worry too much about what their URLs look like :) Most readers don’t look up there. They are looking at the page and the navigation method.

On my site for example, you have to go through “Papers” to get to “Articles” or “Journal”, but I haven’t found a need for the url to read “jdueck.net/papers/journal/42/”.

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#40 2004-06-09 20:57:34

samuel
New Member
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 5

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

Personal opinion: people nowadays don’t worry enough about what their URLs look like :) Most readers look up there to see where they are. They aren’t looking at the navigation method.

On my site for example, you have to go through

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#41 2004-06-10 02:41:03

misterk
Member
From: Morris, MN
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 77
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

And why should there be a 42 in the url when it could just be the title, or even better the url only title :) I haven’t really figured out how txp rewrites its urls, but I’ve always wanted to hack around the default clean url mode – I liked MT’s handling of URI’s better. But I think that Dean will eventually help us all out with this.

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#42 2004-06-10 15:42:43

jdueck
Plugin Author
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 147
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> “I haven

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#43 2004-06-10 15:51:55

jdueck
Plugin Author
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 147
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> sorry for that, just trying to make a point.

Putting words in my mouth that say the opposite of what I meant – how does that make a point?

>more info on the importance of URIs: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI

That document doesn’t seem to condemn the use of a numeric id.

> content is able to be organized in a multitude of ways, while presentation is one dimensional. seems wrong.

You seem to have a point there.

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#44 2004-06-10 16:34:54

samuel
New Member
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 5

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> Putting words in my mouth that say the opposite of what I meant – how does that make a point?

i was just trying to show that stating your opinion without any arguments to back it up is flawed. my opposite “argument” was just as strong as yours.

> That document doesn’t seem to condemn the use of a numeric id.

the number have nothing to do with the content, they expose the software mechanism, which is a big no no.

anyway, all i can hope it that textpattern gets subsections or something to alleviate this problem soon.

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#45 2004-06-10 16:38:58

nryberg
Member
From: Minneapolis, MN - US
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 20
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

> samuel wrote:

>to sum up: sure, jdueck.net/papers_journal/42/ works, but isn’t jdueck.net/papers/journal/42/ better?

Only marginally – in my opinion, once you’ve navigated to a site, the possibility of navigating it through the use of the address implies a number of things:

1) There’s a consistent addressing scheme – as you can see, there’s not. If you don’t know what to expect, the shape of the address is moot – whether you use numbers, slashes, or underscores matters not at all to the end reader. They will be looking at your page, not the address.

2) The organization of your site doesn’t make sense, and the user has to use the address to figure out where to go, or where they’ve been

3) The user doesn’t know how to edit bookmarks to read well.

4) That addresses can be multi-dimensional. They can, but only if there’s a consistent addressing scheme so that you know when you’re crossing dimensional borders.

5) and most importantly, anyone outside of site builders really cares what an URL looks like. For example – look at the address of this discussion on the forum. Did you use that to get here? I doubt it…

I fought the “clean URL” battle on my server just to get a pretty address, and you’ll be shocked to know that it didn’t matter a whit either way when I was done.

If this matters to you, by all means, go for the gusto, and rewrite Textpattern (or create a plug-in) that accomodates this preference. You can’t be the only person out there that cares about this…

Last edited by nryberg (2004-06-10 16:41:09)

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#46 2004-06-11 06:43:53

samuel
New Member
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 5

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

sigh…

let’s look at this in a much simpler way: you lose absolutely nothing when your URLs are nicer. however, you do gain, as small as it may be, a piece of organizational advantage.

in addition, you seem to big missing the ultimate bigger issue. the url ugliness is just a problem spurred by what’s lacking in textpattern. the examples i gave were two levels deep. let’s assume i want 5 levels deep, and each level having 5 subdivisions. the way it is now, i have to create many sections in the form of cereal_flakedbased_organic_crunchy_healthy. does that make sense in any shape or form?

without subsections, textpattern only works well one level deep. i see this as a serious problem.

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#47 2004-06-11 12:32:51

michaelkpate
Moderator
From: Avon Park, FL
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 1,371
Website GitHub Mastodon

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

I wrote this post about permalinks last summer.

Yet another Permalink Post

When I recently switched from Movable Type to Wordpress, I was able to do it without anyone who had linked to it being affected. Having transferred from GreyMatter to MT to WP, I value the importance of keeping the permalink as cms-free as possible.

I am planning a new site and intend to do it with TextPattern. But it is not going live until I can figure out a way to remove the id number from every URL.

Michael

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#48 2004-06-11 20:46:31

Sencer
Archived Developer
From: cgn, de
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 1,803
Website

Re: Textpattern Semantics: A General Revelation

<blockquote>I value the importance of keeping the permalink as cms-free as possible.</blockquote>

I did that, too. Switched two times. And now will switch to txp for a third time. And the great thing is: All of them used IDs to identify posts, so redirecting urls is a very easy one-liner (doesn’t matter wether it’s with mod_rewrite or with a php-script or somehting else).

The hard part is switching from IDs to title-urls, or from title-urls to IDs. There is nothing intrinsically superior to either of them.

This topic right here is a nice point-to topic for explaining sections vs categories, atomic forms etc. for newbies. So IMHO it would be nice if we would keep the URL/title based discussion in one place, e.g. here: http://forum.textpattern.com/viewtopic.php?id=2035 ( title based URLs still not happening in g1.19? )

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