Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

robhwill · 2011-10-13 05:30:27

Hello, everyone! Heard about textpattern, decided to try. Not bad, but still a bit too involved for me. Can somebody advise as to what cms exist which really does not require database knowledge, php, and such. I have to write. I need something that will function like a paper bag (real simple, eh?) or a blank sheet of paper that I can staple together in the order I choose. so faf, have tried wordpress, joomla, and a few others. these are very nice for people who write that also have time to configure, configure, configure. Please….What I’m looking for would be the equivalent of say, time magazine, life magazine, ——- or some format—— that’s blank until I fill it in (every month) with my content. I can’t take tiime from writing (and raising two teenagers) to learn all the ‘behind-the-scenes’ stuff. So:

1. blank ‘magazine’ I fill out with my content, choice of colors, borders, images, etc.

2. No – NO – NO database, php, perl, or special apache admin stuff

3. completely self done (can’t afford to hire someone else to format my content)

4. again….like a paper bag——-when things improve, canvas bag; then (woot) leather bag! But in each case stuff the bag not make it!!

Please don’t be sore guys/gals, you’re great to be able to do this…but I know for certain that the market for self-publishing is nowhere near
what it could be due to the complexity/time factor with the tools currently available. Please help with some suggestion of maybe something that will do it for me!!
Thanks for listening, and take care.
Have A Healthy, Prosperous Day!!

——robhwill

Dragondz · 2011-10-13 07:33:32

Hi robhwill

Textpattern can do what you want but if you need something without writing code or customise, then i think you can install textpattern with a theme (look at textgarden.org), that need some upload stuff and copy/past things, but after that you have only writing and uploading images to fill the site.

You can customise your articles while writing by using Textile code, then i think that can be sufficiant!

Any how there is surely other advices!

Cheers

jakob · 2011-10-13 07:50:17

If you want a site builder kind of site where you don’t need to fuss with any of the technicalities and just want to start publishing, you could try virb or squarespace or even blogger / tumblr / posterous and co.

Alternatively, if you want your own hosted solution, you could worse than hire a txp tailor to cut you a site how you like it leaving you to publish your content as you like.

aslsw66 · 2011-10-13 08:14:20

I think a key issue is thinking about what you really want, especially over the long term.

If you go down the track of one of those blogging/publishing platforms then you will be up and running very quickly – short-term gain. Over the longer term, you will find yourself limited to what they can/will deliver in terms of design, functionality etc. So many of the sites on those platforms just look the same, that if it wasn’t for the quality of the content I wouldn’t bother going there.

I think Textpattern offers a pathway from simple to complex. Take Dragondz’s approach and start with a plain Textpattern installation and one of the available themes. When it’s working, the hardest thing will be textile (which isn’t that hard). You will then have a solid foundation from which to build into something better.

robhwill · 2011-10-13 15:04:24

Hi again, and thanks much for all who replied; and so quickly!!! Can’t say I’ve received such caring attention at any other site/forum. Yes, obviously, I’m trying to learn, but also trying to teach. That is, as a non-coder/user, I think I have a solid idea of just how a real coder can re-structure the cms trends such that everybody really wins, and gets growth in this area even more than currently. While in the army, I was trained to train others to use/deploy equipment we provided. Sounds bland, yes? But, when you factor in that we were specifically trained to do so even when we did not speak the students language….well, everything changes, and the process is respected for being very powerful. So, I will look into the suggestions given here (thx again, aslsw66, jakob (Gruss Gott!), Dragondz). At the same time, I would really, really appreciate it if you guys would consider what I’m proposing as well:

1. Magazine or other formats (newspapers, journals, newsletters, etc.) Examples are: Time magazine, Wall St. Journal, Economist, Vogue, etc. From these user chooses a format and theme/color, fonts, etc. Of course they are blank. User inputs their masthead, title, volume, date, etc. (a little personalizing/branding). This appeals to user due to decision (like pubs named above) user plans to publish in same format for duration of publication/web site. When a reader looks for Time or Economist they can find it before knowing what is written because it has a distinctive, individual look from month-to-month (or whatever publishing schedule).

2. Paper bags and refrigerator magnets: entire layout should be as simple to use as a paper bag or fridge magnet. User does not check infrastructure of fridge, bag or how item is made or make any ‘repairs’. Simply, user stuffs items in ‘bag’ (read that web/publish site) by adding content. Using magazine example, once a section is started (ex. ‘News’, ‘Weather’, ‘Sports’ or whatever) the content is simply added to the appropriate section/column, dated, images added (if any), and son on. Theme, xhtml, css, php, perl, is not user concern; when adding content and an image is included in the article/column, then any ‘wrap around’ of text to image should simply and smoothly take place based on very simple user choice for article: Text above, left, right, below or wrap around image. These are choices average ‘non-coding’ user can relate to. Coder takes care of ‘back office’ how to make it happen.

3. I have thought about what I really want, for some 3 years now, and based on my simple criteria, I’d have to say it does not currently exist. realize what I’m about to say will be considered blasphemy to many, but here goes: I do not want to learn to code, php, css, xhtml, html, perl or any of that stuff. Sticking with the paper bag & fridge magnet metaphor, I’ve never had to worry about magnetism to use my fridge magnets. Simple pick size, shape, color, and place it where it does me the most good. The important thing to me is the content on the note that is under the magnet! Same with paper bag. very utilitarian, but I neither make, repair, etc. paper bags. Again, simply choose size, stuff w/content, fold or store for future use, etc. Much time saved, and I’m doing whatever else I want or need to do.

4. Don’t get me wrong, coders are a breed apart!! I simply think there is a huge, insanely huge market available to all of us who have no interest in this. My needs are very simple, I don’t want to put up a ‘blog’. Humans do not/did not learn to read by scrolling, scrolling…..
We learn to read by holding and looking at books. 2 pages-up, grab the corner and turn the page. Also, I intend for the format to be recognizable (like any pub with a real identity ) every issue via the masthead, style, color and layout. Maybe I’m wrong, but as I troll cms forums and read, it seems many if not most of the user/publishers are constantly changing themes, layouts, etc. Also, when the core software is updated, many of the themes/templates go crazy for lack of simply managed updating. Updating as such is thus a major issuer for all of the most well known platforms: wordpress, joomla, drupal, etc. These users would be better off giving us news, tutorials on their areas of expertise (history, electronics, whatever) that they publish about, and so on rather than having problems with moving their sites from one 1.1.X to 2.0.0 of whatever software. This results in lost publishing time, possible loss of articles, essays, lost $$$ due to site down, etc.

5. Then there are the security issues, which really result from non-coder trying to implement what they really don’t know (mysql, php, html, css, xhtml, etc.) Consider having a beautiful house in the vision in your head; still you need an illustrator and architect to get it done.

6. So, any coders out there who may be willing partner? You code; I’ll write specifications, target capabilities , and test software. I am confident that given the complexity of what I see available, from a coding perspective implementing these specs would not be excessively difficult. From the research I’ve done I’m pretty sure the people at wordpress, joomla, drupal et al, are not going to implement what I have in mind. Just begin to look at TextPattern, so no judgment here as yet.

7. I have about 2-3 years of notes that describe/outline what I discuss above. Whew!! Pardon the rant, but I felt so welcome from the responses I got.

As always, Thanks So Much and Take Care All.
Have A Healthy, Prosperous Day!!
P.S. feel free to pm me if need to: robhwill —at— yahoo-dot-com (w/subject: “textpattern”)
——robhwill

maniqui · 2011-10-13 15:35:30

A quick reply, as I gotta go to the dentist right now:

1. You don’t have to learn too many languages (nor have to learn them at the same time). Just start with HTML. That’s the language the Web speaks. So, no need to know other front-end (a.k.a client-side or browser) languages like CSS or JS, and no need to learn any back-end (a.k.a server-side) language (PHP, Python, Perl, ) nor tools (like MySQL, Apache).
Just plain, old, simple, semantic HTML will take you very far on publishing your contents.

1. Don’t want to learn HTML? No problem. You can still publish content on the web in this formats:

plain text
PDF / .doc / .odt
even plain images (i.e. PNG files) that hold the content, well, as raw pixels. <= Forget about SEO.

My needs are very simple, I don’t want to put up a ‘blog’. Humans do not/did not learn to read by scrolling, scrolling…..

How would you like the user experience to be? Could you share some links to websites or products that are similar to what you are envisioning?

Thanks!
(I’m trying not to be too harsh, just a little :))

Last edited by maniqui (2011-10-13 15:36:45)

maruchan · 2011-10-13 16:22:40

My needs are very simple

Examples are: Time magazine, Wall St. Journal, Economist, Vogue, etc.

Hm, I would disagree with the idea that your needs are simple. Your need something that is simple to use, an abstraction, really—but that means your needs are quite advanced in terms of development time.

Also the quickest way to ruin Time magazine’s signature look would have been to automate its creation. :-) to say nothing of Vogue…

Anyway, if you feel like you are part of a silent majority with these needs, maybe you are. In many ways, people are trying to make the software you want. But there is a continuum, like this:

A ———- ^ ———————————— Z

A = “I want to wave my hands around in the air and end up with a pretty website”
Z = “I want to spend 10 years learning how to code HTML, CSS, Javascript, and TXP tags so I can create whatever I can imagine”
^ = Your idea

realize what I’m about to say will be considered blasphemy to many, but here goes: I do not want to learn to code, php, css, xhtml, html, perl or any of that stuff

Far from being blasphemy, it is the song of the uninitiated and underexposed. I hear it all the time. Adobe has a special conference called “Adobe Max” where they try to make you feel like such a dream is only a few years away. Every year. :-)

Last edited by maruchan (2011-10-13 16:25:41)

robhwill · 2011-10-13 19:24:58

Hi guys, and thx again. I would like the user experience to be like a magazine (now gone…) called TUX Magazine. When I got it each month, I dowloaded it, (it came in PDF format, which was universal—-excellent!), opened it up, and BOOM! There it was 2-pg up, just like any normal book or mag. Click on the corner, and whooow, the page turned. Or, use pgn-down/pg-up, or scroll w/mouse. Maybe they are archived somewhere?? Anyway, yes there was a “signature look”; i.e. a certain format that was uniquely TUX magazine. I don’t want to duplicate Time or Vogue, or anything. I’m simply interested in choosing a format, and meant to say that ——- by using Time, Vogue, Economist, etc. as examples——- there is no need to change the format, once chosen; then of course I would have my signature look (FWIW).

Yes, this may be the song of unitiated/underexposed, but hey high end/low end (Porche 911 or Ford Fiesta) how many owners need to be auto mechanics in order to afford the car and/or drive it competently? It’s my fault that I didn’t ask the pubs of TUX magazine how they did what they did, but if you find one, you’ll have a fairly accurate idea of what I’m looking for as an end product. However, I’m beginning to think that I’ve been ‘drinking the kool-aid’ when it comes to believing the hype: “No coding necessary”, “No programming experience required”, etc., etc.

I very, very much respect anyone who takes the time, practices, develops a clear abstract and practical grasp of the languages & tools, etc. Yet at the same time….. We interrupt this broadcast for breaking news…..Seems TUx is still available from archive at this link:

http://www.tuxmagazine.com/

Let me try again: I do not want to duplicate Time or Vogue or…..anything. Only with regard to size, maybe. I need to have my own sections, colors, insert chosen images, length or articles/number of articles and pages, language (English). That is a consistent format as does any regular published periodical (Time, vogue, New York Times, etc.) in the sense that once chosen, the format is clearly adhered to and thus recognizable. Get it?? I have no need/desire to ruin the likes of Time or Vogue or???

I get you guys though. You’re evangelists———enthusiatist evangelists———and there’s no problem with that, and I respect it. I jump outta aircraft and scuba; earned a living playing trumpet for nearly 20 years; and I evangelized/preached gently about what a slow, steady commitment would do for the ‘unitiated and underexposed’ person with whom I was talking at the time. But hey, at 60 years of age, 14yrs and 17 yrs old sons, a WIFE (for God’s sake!!) it really comes down to time, yes, and some energy. Oh, so it really comes down to expediency at this point. I already have a bunch and lots of handwritten and typed (8.5”×11”) material that I written for a long time. I’m writing all the time. I’m trying to stick to what I already know very well; writing. I’m still convinced my needs are graphically simple:
1. Front (or ‘home’) page: once designed, stays that way, thus becomes “automated”, but not destroyed; rather stable, consistent.

2. Colors/Theme/Masthead (overall identity) once chosen, stays the same. Again, stable, consistent.

3. Sections: News/Sports/Economics/Travel (examples) up to 9 sections total for publication.

4. Articles-Per-Section: Minimum 3 each per section, Maximum 7 per section; Size of article: 1 page-up-to-about 9 pages, 8.5”×11”, double-spaced, w/1” borders. So we have approximate maximum of 63 pages; allow for some ad content, and we max at say, 70 pages per issue. Not real large.

5. No comments by reader within publication or pages (like bottom of blogs)
6. Articles-per-section; Pages-per-article should expand/contract within above min/max given in #4, above. No user hassle. Think of a user putting articles in a neat, stylish duffel bag or some other such example. User only stuffs bag, keeps it clean, maybe locks it & stores it.
7. So guys, it seems I’m getting to having to pay for coding of such an item. Well, using my examples, any $$$estimates???

Goodbye for now. glad I had time to find this site/textpattern software. You guys have really been great. So, I’ll try to install mysql, php, apache, and try it again before giving up. This week I have some time; but starting next week, not so much, back to normal grind.
Take Care, and thanks again.
Have A Healthy, Prosperous Day!!
——robhwill

jakob · 2011-10-16 08:53:11

I would agree with Maruchan: making something that is foolproof to use yet flexible and responsive requires a lot of background development and good design.

Another option you might want to investigate that seems to be closer to your needs and may therefore require less tailoring to your requirements and is also open-source is newscoop. It’s a journalism oriented CMS, comes with a few sensible-looking starter themes, looks like it has good support and is also available as a hosted variable where they take the effort of installing out of your hands. I’ve no personal experience of it, but have seen some smaller-scale but serious news sites using it – see the who’s using gallery.

PascalL · 2011-10-16 14:50:35

So, I’ll try to install mysql, php, apache, and try it again before giving up.

Why do you want to install mysql, php and Apache ? Is it really a local install that you want, i.e only accessible on your computer ? I’ts possible to use your computer as a web server, but this is something complicated. To publish on the web, the first step is to find a web host to your liking. There are many, from very cheap to very expensive. Just make sure they have Php and Mysql installed.

The first Textpattern install might seem hard if you don’t have any experience at all. It’s not that hard, really, just take one thing after the other.

First you will have to create a new database. Think of it as a container. Usually this is made relatively easy by hosts, with admin panels which require no special database knowledge.

Second, you have to upload all files contained in textpattern install archive. This is done via a “ftp software”, which enables you to navigate inside the remote folders on your hosted account, and transfer files and folders from your computer to the remote ones.

These two steps are common to many CMS included the ones you tried.

These are in my opinion the two steps a beginner could have problems with. Don’t hesitate to ask here if such problems arise, or if you don’t know how to start.

The other steps are easy, and everything is detailed in the Textpattern documentation.

Humans do not/did not learn to read by scrolling, scrolling…

I totally agree with this. Each time you scroll, the eyes have to find the line they just left. When going from one page to another, or from one column to another, the eye knows where to continue reading immediately.
One of my big frustration in the web is the lack of straitforward columns implementations. There are some specifications in the work, but it takes longer to be implemented than I imagined.

But, things are more complicated than they seem. Printed media have fixed dimensions. The web is flexible by nature. How do you decide what is “a page”, when the height and width can vary as much as 500% from the screen you write on ? And even for printed magazines, don’t underestimate the tedious work which is done before publication, by professionals who know how to arrange headings, text and image together so that everything fits well, and even looks simple to the reader. This is not simple: did you ever try to create a magazine with a desktop publishing software ?

Dragondz · 2011-10-16 15:59:24

Hi

If you want a local install try wampserver (for windows) or xamp (for mac) there are an automated installer for apache,mysql,php without any configuration!

Cheers

Algaris · 2011-10-17 08:05:32

MAMP is another good all in one package if your on a Mac. It’s what I use for most of development work.

http://www.mamp.info/en/index.html

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#1 2011-10-13 05:30:27

Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#2 2011-10-13 07:33:32

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#3 2011-10-13 07:50:17

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#4 2011-10-13 08:14:20

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#5 2011-10-13 15:04:24

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#6 2011-10-13 15:35:30

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#7 2011-10-13 16:22:40

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#8 2011-10-13 19:24:58

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#9 2011-10-16 08:53:11

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#10 2011-10-16 14:50:35

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#11 2011-10-16 15:59:24

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

#12 2011-10-17 08:05:32

Re: Easier Install/Less Time, etc.

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