A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

jstubbs · 2010-04-04 16:38:49

We’ve (TXP Builders) just about finished a couple of new templates – one for blogs and the other for a photoblog. The next one will be a little more in depth, suitable for a corporate site.

For the first two templates, we use no forms, plugins or images – the idea is that the user can just copy and paste over the default/archive pages and default stylesheet, and that it works out of the box for a 4.2 install. Until and unless there is a system in place for template management the simpler the better in my view.

For the about page, I would suggest using an article because that’s what is already in place for the default section.

Tuts_and_Tipps · 2010-04-09 12:24:37

@ Stef:

I created a new form called static_articles. The About section is now filled with a (suboptimal) dummy text. If you need a login to take a closer look at my changes, send me an email.

Last edited by Tuts_and_Tipps (2010-04-09 12:24:53)

Bloke · 2010-04-09 12:54:18

Tuts_and_Tipps wrote:

I created a new form called static_articles.

Cool. I see both Stuart’s and Jonathan’s points. An article makes sense because it displays article content. A form makes sense to show off <txp:output_form> which, as Stuart says, is under-represented and a very powerful demonstration aid.

However, additional reasons for suggesting to write the text directly in the template were:

it adds no new articles/forms to the mix which we’d have to insert into the database during install (I’m assuming this is not done during upgrade!)
it’s one less item for the administrator to delete after they’ve altered the template

So I would prefer direct text, but could be swayed either way with enough convincing arguments if it’s for the good of the community :-)

Last edited by Bloke (2010-04-09 12:55:55)

Tuts_and_Tipps · 2010-04-09 13:50:20

Bloke schrieb:

(I’m assuming this is not done during upgrade!)

And I always thought gods know and normal people believe :-)

I would find much more interesting if the About section gets its own page, which you can then also assign the contact information (contact form, if need).

This makes the default page clear and simple and offers new possibilities that are difficult to realize for many users. These are my thoughts…

Bloke · 2010-04-09 14:13:41

Tuts_and_Tipps wrote:

This makes the default page clear and simple and offers new possibilities that are difficult to realize for many users.

I’m swaying…

So you propose a 4-page base install? archive, default, error_default and about? Would that mean the about text is written directly in the page template or would you still use a form/article?

I don’t see how to simplify the current default page though (aside from removing the content itself or the call to output_form / using more forms to farm stuff out). The default page already has to handle category lists, searches and front-page article lists, plus pagination so there’s not much that can be removed from it.

One other thing: giving about its own template might imply a need to have one page template per section. While things can be done that way and keeps things simple, the power of conditionals means there’s less to alter as the site grows if you consolidate as much as possible. Just something to bear in mind.

Besides the actual 3-col layout and stuff (which you’ve addressed very nicely now in your shiny new version), what did you think to the page template code and forms as a recent(ish) new user to TXP?

Last edited by Bloke (2010-04-09 14:14:00)

Tuts_and_Tipps · 2010-04-09 16:06:35

Uff. So many questions to an old man :-)

Yes, i propose a 4-page base install. archive, default, error_default and static_articles.

The static_articles page can used for about and contact articles (Do you know a website with no contact form? That should at least be prepared.)

Pack up the necessary code for the About section in a separate page and the default page will be more simple. A cool side effect: the clarity increases because we know what must be sought where.

I use Textpattern only since the 4.2.0 version and found it very confusing at the beginning. It took a while before I understood it fully, but now for me there is no better CMS and I have implemented numerous websites with Textpattern. I therefore know his weaknesses, one of them is the confusion, so I’ve tried to make everything as clear as possible.

Page Template code and forms:

With very few changes, I have adopted the template code, simply because he is pretty good. Surely he can still be improved, but this is not a task of a basic installation. The Forms are the major advantages of Txp, if you have understood, everything is possible.

wet · 2010-04-09 17:22:40

Bloke wrote:

Does anyone think there’s any mileage in putting a sentence or two in the default template inside <txp:if_section name="about"> tags?

IMHO, this would serve as an indication to new users that the separation of concerns we are trying to establish by providing separate roles for publishers, designers and e.g. staff writers is kind of a negligible concept.

els · 2010-04-09 20:49:06

FWIW, I think that the default install should be as basic as possible: it must show something, but certainly not each and every tag or feature. Not ‘some’ either because which ones that should be is subjective. An article tag and a couple of navigation tags should suffice. If a user wants a ready-made site s/he can use a template from textgarden, or hire someone. If a user wants to build a site from scratch s/he should be able to use the default install as a starting point, without needing to remove 99% of the code first.

My thoughts about the layout are more or less the same. Also, don’t make it too pretty or you’ll end up with tons of Txp look-a-like sites… unless that’s what you want.

Just my 2 cents, because I value that Design freedom so much :)

thebombsite · 2010-04-09 22:27:53

I don’t think that having a decent default theme is going to reduce Txp’s “Design freedom” in any way, nor do I think it will produce a load of “clone” sites. I think that most people who use Txp are the type that will very soon want to get their teeth into producing their own design. Never-the-less I think it would be advantageous to have a default theme that is, at the very least, usable and not something you would be ashamed to use for a week or two until you got your head around the Txp basics.

Remember that WP comes with 2 (or is it 3 now) default themes which are basic but usable. You should also remember that WP isn’t exactly famous for it’s templating system yet their basic templates involve a header form, an index form, a footer form, a sidebar form and a comments form. Here we are at Txp, renowned for it’s templating system, trying to avoid showing it off. I’m not suggesting we make things any more complicated than they need to be but <txp:output_form form="formName" /> is such a basic building block that I think we really ought to have the odd example or two. I understand not wanting to add more forms that may go unused but I think we already have a few of those that could disappear and be replaced with something useful like sidebar and footer forms which are more likely to be retained and used by a user than some of the ones we have now.

I also think this problem needs to be addressed so that essential (and thus non-deletable) forms really are essential and non-deletable..

Bloke · 2010-04-09 23:28:52

I see where everyone’s coming from now. My initial remark over putting the about content in the Page itself is retarded as wet pointed out. I was trying to minimse the amount of clutter / extra articles / extra forms that either need to be protected or otherwise added to a base install.

I’ve had a chance to review what Andreas has done behind the scenes and it’s rather nice. The About article is actually an article. Most sites will have some kind of about page or contact page so having this shouldn’t be too much hardship as I suspect most people will just change the content and not delete the article itself (or rename it). Even blogs have a Who Am I page.

Currently Andreas has added this to the default Page:

<txp:if_section name="about">
<div class="hfeed">
<txp:article form="static_articles" searchall="1" />
</div>
<txp:else />
...

A few things about this:

it could be taken out of this page and made into its own page but I don’t know if that’s necessary
it could have limit="1" added to ensure you never get an article list
it could be simplifed further to <txp:article form="static_articles" searchall="1" wraptag="div" class="hfeed" /> which shows off a few more attributes
the static_articles form holds just a simple heading, entry-content containing div and body tag

I suppose the same result could be achieved with <txp:output_form form="static_article" /> and then have an article (or article_custom) call inside the form; the article could be used as a container here. But as Els says there comes a point where you start to use tags for the sake of using them.

I also don’t know if creating aother form is the way to go. There are already plenty of the buggers and I don’t use a lot of them already — even the protected ones. If there was a way to render the same thing (perhaps a conditional in the default form?) that didn’t show the vcard stuff unless in the archive section, that would be preferable I think. But I can’t speak for everyone so maybe I’m wrong here too. There must be some balance we can strike between assigning page/form/article/tags as more resources that just have to be deleted by the majority of users vs terseness that confuses people.

And Stuart thanks for the bump on bert’s post. I missed that one.

Last edited by Bloke (2010-04-09 23:32:07)

Tuts_and_Tipps · 2010-04-10 10:34:02

Bloke schrieb:

3. it could be simplifed further to <txp:article form="static_articles" searchall="1" wraptag="div" class="hfeed" /> which shows off a few more attributes

This is actually better than my solution. I have changed it to:

<txp:article form="static_articles" searchall="1" wraptag="div" class="hfeed" limit="1" />

Last edited by Tuts_and_Tipps (2010-04-10 10:35:50)

philwareham · 2010-09-23 14:37:07

Hi,

Just been directed here by Stef, from my original post on a new default theme.

I’d be willing to help out on improving/building the TXP default theme if it is still an ongoing project? Let me know.

Phil

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#37 2010-04-04 16:38:49

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#38 2010-04-09 12:24:37

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#39 2010-04-09 12:54:18

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#40 2010-04-09 13:50:20

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#41 2010-04-09 14:13:41

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#42 2010-04-09 16:06:35

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#43 2010-04-09 17:22:40

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#44 2010-04-09 20:49:06

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#45 2010-04-09 22:27:53

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#46 2010-04-09 23:28:52

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#47 2010-04-10 10:34:02

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

#48 2010-09-23 14:37:07

Re: A New Default Theme for Textpattern - Request for Proposals

Board footer