Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

wet · 2009-08-04 08:04:54

MattD, please post your low detailled diagnostic output.

Pat64 · 2009-08-04 10:34:46

ruud wrote:

Why doesn’t TXP 4.2 (major new version) simply throw out the old ‘use tables for layout’ design and move to a table-less design (not for actual tables of course), because even Remora still uses a table to layout the write tab.

I agree too! But it seems it’s too late. This big and necessary change would be made in 2006 : lots of back-office plugins developed since need current tables to work. That’s why I suppose the Team don’t want to change it now. But the new remora design (and theming new feature) is major change in the history of TXP.

Last edited by Pat64 (2009-08-04 10:35:24)

wet · 2009-08-04 11:14:22

ruud wrote:

Why doesn’t TXP 4.2 (major new version) simply throw out the old ‘use tables for layout’ design and move to a table-less design (not for actual tables of course), because even Remora still uses a table to layout the write tab.

Because the size of the development team in the first half of 2009 left room for improvements on the resource allocation side, I assume. Also: Patches from voluntary contributors were scarce at best.

MattD · 2009-08-04 16:07:16

wet wrote:

MattD, please post your low detailled diagnostic output.

Textpattern version: 4.0.8 (r3266)
Last Update: 2009-08-04 06:51:41/2009-08-04 06:51:21
Document root: /home/user/public_html/domain
$path_to_site: /home/user/public_html/domain
Textpattern path: /home/user/public_html/domain/textpattern
Permanent link mode: section_title
Temporary directory path: /home/user/public_html/domain/textpattern/tmp
Site URL: domain.com
PHP version: 5.2.8
GD Image Library: version bundled (2.0.34 compatible), supported formats: GIF, JPG, PNG
Server TZ: America/Chicago
Server Local Time: 2009-08-04 11:05:55
DST enabled?: 1
Automatically adjust DST setting?: 1
Time Zone: America/Los_Angeles (-25200)
MySQL: 5.0.77-community-log
Locale: en_US.UTF-8
Server: Apache/2.2.11 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.7a Phusion_Passenger/2.1.3 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635
PHP Server API: cgi
RFC 2616 headers: 0
Server OS: Linux 2.6.27-grsec
Active plugins: zem_contact_lang-4.0.3.6, zem_contact_reborn-4.0.3.20, smd_gallery-0.51, zem_redirect-1.2, pap_contact_cleaner-0.1, rah_urltolink-0.1m, jnm_feed_custom_item-0.1, smd_if-0.75, smd_calendar-0.34, rss_auto_excerpt-0.5, smd_query-0.2, zem_debug-0.2, smd_short_url-0.1, glx_gravatar-2009.1, smd_multi_choice-0.1, smd_random_text-0.11, rvm_privileged-0.3, rah_replace-0.2, cjs_countdown-0.2, msd_countdown-0.1m, rss_unlimited_categories-0.7.4, smd_where_used-0.19, hcg_templates-0.3m, lam_image_uploader-0.6c, rah_sitemap-0.4m, rss_live_archive-0.7m, mem_twitter-0.2, msd_google_map-1.4m, ebl-image-edit-1.0, stm_javascript-0.3, rss_admin_db_manager-4.3m, rah_plugin_download-0.7, tru_tags_flash-3.5.1, jnm_comments_reply-0.3, aks_rss-0.1.4, rah_external_output-0.4, upm_date_archive-0.2.5, smd_lib-0.35, ied_plugin_composer-0.82, smd_admin_themes-0.1, jmd_admin_js-0.1, wet_quicklink-0.5, wet_peex-0.4
Admin-side theme: classic 4.0.8

Pre-flight check: 
------------------------
You are running a development version of Textpattern on a live server.: 
	/home/user/public_html/domain/textpattern/index.php, 
	/home/user/public_html/domain/textpattern/lib/txplib_head.php, 
	/home/user/public_html/domain/textpattern/lib/txplib_misc.php, 
	/home/user/public_html/domain/textpattern/publish/comment.php
------------------------

.htaccess file contents: 
------------------------
Options +FollowSymLinks

Options All -Indexes

<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
	RewriteEngine On
	#RewriteBase /relative/web/path/

	RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.(.*) [NC]
	RewriteRule ^(.*)[\/]?$ http://%1/$1 [R=301,NC,L]

	RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} -f [OR]
	RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} -d
	RewriteRule ^(.+) - [PT,L]

	RewriteRule ^(.*) index.php

	RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization}  !^$
	RewriteRule .* - [E=REMOTE_USER:%{HTTP:Authorization}]


</IfModule>



------------------------

ruud · 2009-08-04 16:51:33

wet wrote:

Because the size of the development team in the first half of 2009 left room for improvements on the resource allocation side, I assume. Also: Patches from voluntary contributors were scarce at best.

Ouch. True, you were basically the only one doing any development in that period :)

Would switching to a table-less layout on the admin side be acceptable for a 4.2.x version where x is not 0 (x=0 would be the ideal moment to do this)? It would requires updates on some plugins, but that has happened in the 4.0.x series as well.

edit: seeing the response below, I’m guessing that unfortunately the chance of a table-less layout actually happening at some point is just about zero. Surprising, really. I hadn’t expected any kind of admin-side theming without it. And yes, this is perhaps not the best topic to discuss this in detail. Sorry about that. I’ll shut up about it now.

wet · 2009-08-04 18:35:59

ruud wrote:

Would switching to a table-less layout on the admin side be acceptable for a 4.2.x version where x is not 0 (x=0 would be the ideal moment to do this)?

I’d rather discuss the real-world benefits of a table-less layout for this use case before jumping into implementation details like time frame and class names.

Not based upon an abstract W3C theory or upon a front-end designers POV (the benefits of proper semantics are undebatable there), but upon the real pros for all stake holders of the Textpattern admin-side (common users, users with disabilities, current site owners who’d like to stay in the update loop, plugin authors, developer resources). Please keep in mind that one major beneficiary of semantic layout is a non-starter for the admin-side: Googlebot.

Anybody interested in such a discussion is encouraged to open a new thread, as I frankly do not see much use of this topic in the 4.2.0 RC context. You may now call me pragmatic.

TheEric · 2009-08-05 05:21:46

Bloke wrote:

and I asked which plugins are affected by the ability to alter pagetop and end_page? More specifically, which of your plugins are affected? The community love your plugins. If we can gauge how much of a problem this is, we could address it before 4.2.0 hits the streets.

Here’s a particular issue that’s vexing me with EBL_QuickNote : I wanted to create a site-wide mail notification indicator that would reside directly under the header that would be obvious. With Classic, I do just go to the end of the table and be done with it, not so with Remora which has different ID’s and classes. While it may work in Classic, it won’t work in Remora.

I suppose the obvious solution would be to only support one or the other.

wet · 2009-08-05 05:51:07

One (apparently less obvious) solution would add an event handler for the admin_side / pagetop_end event, and render a DOM node at the end of the header which would subsequently be populated by DOM scripting:

register_callback('foo_bar', 'admin_side', 'pagetop_end');
function foo_bar () {echo '<p id="foo_message"></p>';}

Another possible solution: For server-side notifications, a plugin could use the mandatory theme notification method:

global $theme;
$theme->announce('foo has happened');

Both methods are guaranteed to work with all themes as the event is sent by core when the page header is rendered, and the theme method must be implemented by all themes. Bonus track for solution #2: Notifications will show up where the theme designer thought they’d should, and not at an arbitrary place which each plugin author determines differently.

Bloke · 2009-08-05 05:51:25

TheEric wrote:

I wanted to create a site-wide mail notification indicator that would reside directly under the header

A very good real-world use case. Could you make use of the callback event=admin-side, step=pagetop_end which fires immediately beneath the header on all themes? You then have at least two options:

put your markup directly in this callback on every page via PHP
make the callback add, for example, <div id="ebl_qn_mail"></div> and use jQuery after DOM load to inject your markup in that known space

EDIT: lol, wet beat me to it by 18 seconds, and his method is better :-)

Last edited by Bloke (2009-08-05 05:54:24)

wet · 2009-08-05 05:54:08

Great minds think alike ;-)

TheEric · 2009-08-05 06:17:34

Ahh, excellent. I was thinking in terms of too much jQuery. I forgot about pagetop_end. Using that method, I don’t have to resort to any JS at all.

MattD · 2009-08-06 14:52:51

My daignostics are posted above regarding the DST issue.

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#73 2009-08-04 08:04:54

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#74 2009-08-04 10:34:46

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#75 2009-08-04 11:14:22

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#76 2009-08-04 16:07:16

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#77 2009-08-04 16:51:33

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#78 2009-08-04 18:35:59

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#79 2009-08-05 05:21:46

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#80 2009-08-05 05:51:07

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#81 2009-08-05 05:51:25

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#82 2009-08-05 05:54:08

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#83 2009-08-05 06:17:34

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

#84 2009-08-06 14:52:51

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.2.0 Release Candidate: Help us test!

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