[mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

hcgtv · 2009-05-21 13:01:27

Els wrote:

I understand that different people have different opinions and dreams about how their favourite CMS should evolve. But I don’t understand it when people won’t accept that their dream is just one of many, and though it is possible that it will become reality, it’s just as likely that it won’t.

Els, that’s really all it is differing opinions, nothing else.

And if it will, it will not likely happen overnight.

Going back to the title of this thread, you do know that Textpattern predates Wordpress? Had Dean Allen concentrated solely on Textpattern, like Matt Mullenweg did with Wordpress, I believe we wouldn’t be having this conversation. So it’s not so much that I want things to happen overnight, it’s that it should of happened years ago.

reid · 2009-05-21 13:50:54

hcgtv wrote:

Had Dean Allen concentrated solely on Textpattern, like Matt Mullenweg did with Wordpress, I believe we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

That’s right. It would be a conversation about the way Dean has acted like a dictator and not let any/every one be a dev, or kept trackbacks from being added as a feature, or isn’t issuing updates enough, or doesn’t post in the forum as much as he once did, or hasn’t changed the admin look in ages, and BTW, when is the web site going to be redesigned, etc., etc., etc.

In other words, likely not a whole lot different than today.

hcgtv · 2009-05-21 14:35:39

reid wrote:

In other words, likely not a whole lot different than today.

What’s old is new.

I still follow this forum because I run Textpattern, like I follow the development of any software that I happen to rely on, my preferred browser Firefox comes to mind. The only reason I posted in this thread is because I kept seeing my name mentioned about a post I had done over at another forum.

I’m not the first to have an opinion about the state of affairs, and I’m not going to be the last. Carry on.

mrdale · 2009-05-21 15:11:52

Bert > I think some credit should be given where due and I think things have started moving more efficiently with TXP. Wet has really stepped up and started taking input seriously and making some really useful and powerful revs, eg… Admin side UI, tag parser, All kinds of hooks.

I’ve also seen more response to requests and ideas than ever before. This is appreciated by all.

But I still think Wet should let a few of the heavy-hitters in the plugin arena in as devs, (bloke, steve, jmd, others) which would move things along even quicker. Wet could be the chief dev and still have the last word on stuff, but offload some of the coding to talented and qualified help.

So Thanks Wet, your attitude is appreciated. Don’t think we haven’t noticed…

Last edited by mrdale (2009-05-21 15:25:09)

hcgtv · 2009-05-21 15:38:19

mrdale wrote:

But I still think Wet should let a few of the heavy-hitters in the plugin arena in as devs, (bloke, steve, jmd, others) which would move things along even quicker.

That is exactly what I said over at the FluxBB forum, yet I’m accused of clubbing baby seals or something.

Wet could be the chief dev and still have the last word on stuff, but offload some of the coding to talented and qualified help.

Ditto, said the same thing, Textpattern needs a leader to direct operations.

mrdale · 2009-05-21 15:58:16

Bert> Then at the very least Bert, you and I are on the same page. Let’s start a seal-fighting syndicate… LOL

Bloke · 2009-05-22 09:06:04

mrdale wrote:

I still think Wet should let a few of the heavy-hitters in the plugin arena in as devs, (bloke, steve, jmd, others)

Thanks for the vote of confidence :-)

Can’t speak for the others, but the core would be a right fricking mess if I was allowed in the sand pit! All the carefully crafted stability would go out the window, because I hack. I don’t code well. That’s part of the reason I pulled out of even considering being an xPattern dev. Would love to do it, but the likes of manfre, jm, net-carver, et al are several orders of magnitude above my station.

If it was up to me and TXP needed any extra help, artagesw, chriloi, gomedia, jm, and trenc would get honorary dev status because they produce blinding, visionary, clean code and have the mindset for the job.

So Thanks Wet, your attitude is appreciated. Don’t think we haven’t noticed…

Hear hear! The SVN dev branch continues to impress me daily — especially all the features that had “no chance, wait for crockery” status that have now been put in to 4.0.x. And more besides. Amazing work, wet.

Last edited by Bloke (2009-05-22 10:26:28)

Neko · 2009-05-22 09:34:29

I think every other discussion like this (and god knows we had our fair share of them in the past) just annoys the fuck out out of developers. Which is dangerous at the moment since there is only one. Now, it would be ironic to drive away the only TXP developer left, wouldn’t it?

Instead of ranting about the lack of direction, the scarcity of resources, Dean fucking Allen for Christ’s sake why instead don’t we simply praise all the terrific work that has been done so far? Admin themes? FTW! Supadupa tag parser? Damn right.

And if we’re not in the mood of praising, like we enjoy to carry the curmudgeon torch or something, there’s still the nifty PayPal donation option, which I guess can help boost morale in a very effective way.

mrdale · 2009-05-22 15:00:08

Er, Neko.

I thought I was praising, or at least trying to bend the conversation toward credit where it is due.

hcgtv · 2009-05-23 15:18:31

Neko wrote:

I think every other discussion like this (and god knows we had our fair share of them in the past) just annoys the fuck out out of developers. Which is dangerous at the moment since there is only one. Now, it would be ironic to drive away the only TXP developer left, wouldn’t it?

Neko, I think it annoys you more than the devs ;)

I remember when I first heard the news that wet was being given SVN access, it was in the thread that blasted Textdrive’s lack of funding for this project. Yes, it would indeed be ironic if wet left now, because there was more turmoil and uncertainty back when he wanted in.

Instead of ranting about the lack of direction, the scarcity of resources, Dean fucking Allen for Christ’s sake why instead don’t we simply praise all the terrific work that has been done so far? Admin themes? FTW! Supadupa tag parser? Damn right.

Yes, the core code is improving, in large part to Mr. Robert Wetzlmayr’s work, gracias wet. Now Robert, do you need permission from Dean to change the front page? Does Dean figure into anything these days, have we, the community, been given the keys to the kingdom? Because if we’re in charge, who’s in the committee, can I get in, who and where do I petition, how does this process work?

And if we’re not in the mood of praising, like we enjoy to carry the curmudgeon torch or something, there’s still the nifty PayPal donation option, which I guess can help boost morale in a very effective way.

I got an idea, let’s head over to welovetxp. Let’s go chronologically down the line of featured sites, and knock on their doors for contributions.

Or we can grow this community.

Neko · 2009-05-23 22:49:19

hcgtv wrote:

Neko, I think it annoys you more than the devs ;)

I don’t see how making fun of attention whores slash drama queens relates to this thread. If you just wanted to prove that you are proficient at using the forum search function for whatever reason… well, you sure rock, sir!

I remember when I first heard the news that wet was being given SVN access, it was in the thread that blasted Textdrive’s lack of funding for this project. Yes, it would indeed be ironic if wet left now, because there was more turmoil and uncertainty back when he wanted in.

Yeah, sure. 7 minus 1 is 6. 1 minus 1 is… gosh… you can’t fuck around when it comes to math.

Let me open up /textpattern/index.php, it says Copyright 2005 by Dean Allen, our leader!

Very insightful, thanks for pointing that out.

I got an idea, let’s head over to welovetxp. Let’s go chronologically down the line of featured sites, and knock on their doors for contributions.

Well, IIRC on We <3 TXP there are three sites I made, and every time I launched a client site published with TXP I donated as much as I possibly could via PayPal. They were just a few bucks but I tried my best. I’m sure you did the same every time you had the chance, and by every time you had the chance I mean during you spare time between a forum post here and there about the (so called, so perceived by some) sad state of TXP. ;)

Last edited by Neko (2009-05-24 00:18:47)

Mary · 2009-05-24 09:13:28

FYI

Back when I joined the team it was told to me that we shouldn’t f*** around with the homepage because Dean could swoop in. But it never happened, and is unlikely to happen. (For one thing he doesn’t have access to anything, and hasn’t for some time, so if he did ever want back in, he would have to actually ask first.) BUT, someone (Matthew, wasn’t it?) already is working on it, as I recall. Unless something has happened to change that.

It still has his name on Textpattern because you can’t just remove someone else’s copyright info, and there are still various bits and pieces that are his in it.

The biggest problem is that the devs are expected to both develop and support, and delegate and oversee. They get lots of praise when a new release comes out or when they debug a tricky situation. They get the occasional financial gift from a very small group of individuals – and one of the regulars was indeed Neko. All these things are lovely. But it’s not like the community blows sunshine up your ass. You get a hell of a lot of complaints and bitch sessions too, on the forum, through email after email. After a while it’s like your previous efforts, fine as they were at the time, have completely vapourized and the core is referred to like it’s complete crap, and that you’ve “forgotten where you came from”, as if that makes any bloody sense in this context. It takes it’s toll and you either get burn out or lose interest. Other things seem so much more worthwhile and rewarding.

WordPress isn’t immune to this, they just have a hell of a lot more people involved (because WP filled a popular niche at just the right time), so it’s not always obvious to the casual observer.

I’m not in contact with Ruud – he’s only an aquaintance that I worked with for a short while – so I have no idea if he’s actually gone, or just busy or whatever. Assuming that he is gone or leaving, my humble suggestion would be that Robert think about what one job he’d like to do best (coding? troubleshooting? something else?), and then find trusted people to oversee the other key areas. No johnny-come-latelys (we’ve watched those promise the moon and leave the community in record time, and that’s the reason why proving your reliability was always an important factor in joining the dev team) and no one doing more than one job, just the one that they both do and like best.

I’ll slink away now. Carry on.

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#25 2009-05-21 13:01:27

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#26 2009-05-21 13:50:54

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#27 2009-05-21 14:35:39

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#28 2009-05-21 15:11:52

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#29 2009-05-21 15:38:19

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#30 2009-05-21 15:58:16

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#31 2009-05-22 09:06:04

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#32 2009-05-22 09:34:29

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#33 2009-05-22 15:00:08

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#34 2009-05-23 15:18:31

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#35 2009-05-23 22:49:19

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

#36 2009-05-24 09:13:28

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

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