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#1 2005-10-26 19:05:55

maniqui
Moderator
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2004-10-10
Posts: 3,070
Website

suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

<h4>Introduction</h4>
We have the amazing <a href=“http://textpattern.net/”>TextBook Project</a> for documentation about built-in (standard) TXP tags.
We also have <a href=“http://forum.textpattern.com/viewforum.php?id=10”>a forum for Textile related topics</a>.
<p>But <em>why dont we have a forum category to <strong>learn, share knowledge (tricks, tutorials, discoverings, suggestions) and discuss</strong> about built-in TXP tags?</em></p>
<h4>Background (personal experience)</h4>
I often found myself searching for information about a built-in TXP tag.
Of course, I first go to the TextBook (where content cannot be discussed as in a forum), and then I also search in TXP forums.
<strong>I often search the forums (for built-in tags):</strong> <ul> <li>for explanations and tricks about how to use the tag</li> <li>for users experience/feedback about the tag</li> <li>for possibles plug-in replacement for a built-in tag</li> </ul> <strong>The search results are usually:</strong> <ul> <li>no information about the tag: it happened to me with <code><txp:text /></code></li> <li>irrelevant results: because the search engine isnt “txp tag friendly” and, as above, when I searched “txp:text tag”, the search results were irrelevant, even refining my search</li> <li>lots of “How Do I…?”, and “Plug-ins”, “Troubleshooting” and “Bug reports” results that, again, some times are irrelevant</li> </ul>
<h4>Suggestion</h4>
<em>To create a forum category named “Buit-in TXP tags” (or a more clever name)</em>
The idea behind is to <strong>have a place to learn, share and discuss about built-in TXP tags</strong> (ideal for newbies but also as a reference for advanced users).
Also, the idea is to centralize related information and resources about each built-in TXP tag (see Implementation Ideas below).

<h4>Implementation ideas</h4>
This category forum could have this configuration: <ul> <li>one topic for each built-in TXP tag <ul> <li>only for tags avaible in the <a href=“http://www.textpattern.com/download/”>latest stable official version</a></li> <li>sticky topics alphabetically sorted, for easy search</li> </ul> </li> <li>users cannot add new topics (is this possible?)</li> <li><strong>only administrators can add new topics</strong> (is it possible?)</li> <li>all forum administrators can edit the first post(is it possible?)</li> </ul>
<h4>About the content of the first post (for each topic)</h4>
As most authors plug-ins do in the Plug-in forum, the first post should have information and links resources.
Also, this first post should be <strong>editable only by administrators (all)</strong> and not only by the topic author (who also is an administrator)
First post <strong>should have</strong>: <ul> <li>link to the <strong>tag page</strong> at <a href=“http://textpattern.net/”>The TextBook Project</a></li> <li>version availability: “4.0+”</li> <li>maybe a <strong>little intro</strong> about the tag (functionality, context, etc) <li>additional information that is not in the TextBook tag page</li> <li>suggested plug-ins?</li> <li>what else?</li> </ul>
First post <strong>should <span style=“text-decoration:underline;”>NOT</span> have</strong>: <ul> <li>any information/explanation about how to use the tag <strong>that is already in the TextBook tag page</strong> <ul> <li>because that is one of the reasons for the TextBook to exists</li> <li>because, it will duplicate efforts when changing/updating information in the TextBook/Forum</li> </ul> </li> <li>snippets/examples</li> <li>what else should not have the first post?</li> </ul>
<h4>What content could we add in subsequent posts (inside each sticky thread)?</h4>
Nobody has control over what the user want to post, but the idea is that everyone asks/shares information about the discussed topic, in this case, a built-in TXP tag.
So, it would be nice that we all, in subsequent posts, add: <ul> <li>any questions/answers about the tag</li> <li>tips and tricks</li> <li>suggestions, examples, snippets</li> <li><strong>links</strong> <ul> <li>to “How do I…?” forum threads where useful information about the built-in tag is being discussed</li> <li>to “Plug-in” forum threads where related/useful plug-ins to achieve something similar to the built-in tag are being discussed</li> <li>to <a href=“http://www.textpattern.com/faq/”>“FAQs”</a> related to the built-in tag discussed</li> <li>other useful resources in the internet</li> <li>what else?</li> </ul> </li> <li>what else?</li> </ul>
<h4>Final comments</h4>
Maybe, someone thinks (like I also did at first) that a forum with only sticky post discussing built-in txp tags will lead to topics with tons of pages. Maybe, for some “difficult” tags, it will, but it doesnt seems to be a real problem.
Maybe not, because the most useful and updated information and resources about a particular built-in tag will be in the first post of the thread. So the user will read the first post and have a lot of information/resourses to visit.
Of course it will also be great information/resources in the subsequent posts in the thread.

Thanks <small>and excuse my english</small>

Last edited by maniqui (2005-10-27 15:10:39)


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#2 2005-10-26 23:50:12

rsilletti
Moderator
From: Spokane WA
Registered: 2004-04-28
Posts: 704

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

The one thing that is a bit lacking in the Tag Reference is good examples of tag usage, very often an example helps more in making sense of how a tag is used than the write ups do.
Perhaps a central place to develop examples and ideas before they are included in the reference would be a good idea.

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#3 2005-10-27 14:37:30

davidm
Member
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 719

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

Now I like your well thought-out proposition : it does make a lot of sense and I also feel it would fill a gap in this department, though things have gotten far better with TextBook and the tags listing (when I came to txp, taghandlers.php was the place to educate yourself about tags, a bit dry and at the time Pedro Palazon’s unofficial manual had been a blessing).

Yet I agree the learning by example would be more powerful especially for newbies who are starting fresh and want to get deeper into customizing their websites. <span style=“color: #006600”><strong>I most definitely support your idea</strong></span>

Last edited by davidm (2005-10-27 14:38:40)


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#4 2005-10-27 15:03:19

maniqui
Moderator
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2004-10-10
Posts: 3,070
Website

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

<blockquote>
We have the amazing TextBook Project for documentation about built-in (standard) TXP tags.
We also have a forum for Textile related topics.
<em>But why dont we have a forum category to learn, share knowledge (tricks, tutorials, discoverings, suggestions) and discuss about built-in TXP tags?</em></blockquote>

I add:
We have a <b>Plug-in forum</b> (and even a <b>Central Plugin List</b> outdated) and <a href=“http://www.textpattern.org/”>Textpattern Resources</a>.
But again, we <em>lack</em> of a TXP tags forum category.

Explanation about using only sticky post:

The idea of having an sticky post for each built-in txp tag and that users cannot add new topics is to generate some kind of inverse forum, where all the possible topics (one per tag) have been already posted.
Also, the idea is to avoid duplicated threads talking about the same tag.


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#5 2005-10-27 15:36:51

davidm
Member
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 719

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

maniqui, as I said you have it thought out pretty well, I think an admin or moderator should look into it… If they don’t react, you should mail them about this.

I’d be curious to see some feedback from them about this, as well as from Destry, but you have set the boundaries between what belongs to TextBook and what would belong in this new forum. On thing we could wonder is which is the best-tool-for-the-job : forum ? wiki ? I think the forum would encourage contribution, being less formal, but things could later be synthetized in the wiki since those potentially big threads could become cluttered with time.

Last edited by davidm (2005-10-27 15:38:11)


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#6 2005-10-27 17:54:08

hakjoon
Moderator
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
Website

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

The only thing I would worry about is that a lot of times usage examples come in threads of other topics. So someone would have to specifically set out to post examples in these threads and I wonder if that time wouldn’t be better spent fleshing out the Textbook examples.

Maybe I’m not exactly understanding the idea.


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#7 2005-10-27 18:51:49

rsilletti
Moderator
From: Spokane WA
Registered: 2004-04-28
Posts: 704

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

I see a lot of good examples in the forums, but it takes time to find them and most are with new tags. To get some ideas on all the options in one forum topic would make it easier to find them, and use them to flesh out Textbook`s reference. Also special solutions don’t always make the best examples.

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#8 2005-10-27 19:35:54

Destry
Moderator
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,220
Website

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

I’m all for the idea of something along these lines. I agree with Rick (rsilletti), the only thing really missing in TextBook’s tag pages is better examples of use, not just code examples, but breakdowns of real context uses, not hypothetical ones. For example, I still can’t get my head around conditionals, and I know I could be making use of them, I just don’t get where. I understand the tag usage, I just don’t understand the context of them. I would write tutorials on this myself if I could just first undertand how it works. I’m sure one good example will make it click for all the conditional tags, but I’m still waiting.

Anyway, maybe what could happen here is it serves as a middleground area where we pull the loose bits and pieces floating around in other forum threads into this nice orderly location maniqui is talking about, then when we have something solid in each case, we write up a concise, refined piece for the associated tag page in TextBook. Something like that?

By the way, I think it deserves mentioning that Rick has been doing a stellar job of maintaining the TextBook tag pages. They are what they are to a large part by his efforts. Good job Rick!

Last edited by Destry (2005-10-27 19:38:13)


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#9 2005-10-27 21:19:45

maniqui
Moderator
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2004-10-10
Posts: 3,070
Website

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

> Destry wrote:
<blockquote>the only thing really missing in TextBook’s tag pages is better examples of use, not just code examples, but breakdowns of real context uses, not hypothetical ones.</blockquote>

That’s why I suggesting this new forum category.
Better examples usually come from real context uses, so better examples come from textpattern users.
So, in each sticky post for each built-in tag, TXP users will post different kind of content: questions, suggestions, links, and also real examples of how to use a tag.
Then, from all the information posted, TextBook can pick the best examples and other useful information about a tag.

<blockquote>Anyway, maybe what could happen here is it serves as a middleground area where we pull the loose bits and pieces floating around in other forum threads into this nice orderly location maniqui is talking about, then when we have something solid in each case, we write up a concise, refined piece for the associated tag page in TextBook. Something like that?</blockquote>

Ah, I missed that part. Yes.

Also, each Textbook tag page could have a link back to the sticky post for each tag.
This way, if someone doesnt find something in the TextBook, he/she can go to the thread about that tag, and find other useful (and maybe more fresh information) about the tag.
This will generate a continuos feedback between the forum and the Textbook, and maybe this will encourage people to help maintaining the Textbook pages.


La música ideas portará y siempre continuará

TXP Builders – finely-crafted code, design and txp

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#10 2005-10-27 21:49:35

Mary
Sock Enthusiast
Registered: 2004-06-27
Posts: 6,236

Re: suggestion: new "Built-in TXP tags" forum category

Too many sticky posts. That would be my one concern if you planned to do that, and also wouldn’t be needed if there’s a specific forum for it. :)

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