[wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

hcgtv · 2010-10-21 00:07:27

Looking back at the conversation of how tags were categorized, and looking over today’s tags, I wonder if there’s too many categories or are they being underutilized?

Categories:
1. Article [36]
2. Comment [28]
3. Conditional [33]
4. Error Handling [4]
5. File [11]
6. Future [6]
7. Image [5]
8. Link [9]
9. List [5]
10. Markup [14]
11. Navigation [16]
12. Programmer [4]
13. Search [9]
14. Structural [8]

There are 14 categories of tags, the Article category has 36 tags but List only has 5. While those in the List category can produce lists, like category_list, but the article tag can produce lists also, so should it be in the List category also? Or maybe do away with List altogether and put them in Navigation?

I guess what I’m trying to say is that 14 categories for 142 tags seems like a lot. Those categories with 5 or less tags in them could be either merged with other tags or add more tags to that category to beef it up. My leanings are to streamline it a bit, have just 10 main categories, and a tag can reside in just 2 categories to ease confusion. Because I can do anything with the php tag, so it could reside in every single category for that matter.

Oh, and if you consider the way categories are used, you can say you’re missing one for category, which would hold all the category related tags, like category_list. So you can further sub-categorize things if you so desired, but as I said, it can get confusing.

I’m not advocating changing the wiki, but if you were to categorize things today, and keep it simple, what categories would you have?

els · 2010-10-21 17:23:33

hcgtv wrote:

Or maybe do away with List altogether and put them in Navigation?

I think I like this idea for a start. You are right there are a lot of categories, I am curious what the others think. Maybe we should get some opinions of users that actually use the categories to search for tags. To be honest, I never do that…

uli · 2010-10-21 18:23:19

My bookmark jumps straight to #mw-pages. It took me too much time to always think about what N P S means after reading A C E — F I L M ;P

But after all … what makes sense … this post not, that’s for sure!

hcgtv · 2010-10-22 18:16:43

Els, since you were in on the original classification of tags, could you give me a brief explanation of each category. I think that’s what’s missing in all of this, an explanation of what a Structural tag is as opposed to a Markup tag.

uli, I agree, for the experienced user, you just want to be presented with a tag listing and click to the attributes of a tag quickly.

hcgtv · 2010-10-22 18:52:23

Here’s the current list of tags and their categories. Please note that breadcrumb, link_feed_link and text have no category at the wiki.

Textpattern tags and their categories:

    * article - article
    * article_custom - article
    * article_id - article
    * article_image - article - image
    * article_url_title - article
    * author - article
    * body - article
    * breadcrumb - navigation
    * category - navigation - structural
    * category1 - article - navigation
    * category2 - article - navigation
    * category_list - list - navigation - structural
    * comments - comment
    * comments_count - comment
    * comments_error - comment
    * comments_form - comment
    * comments_help - comment
    * comments_invite - comment
    * comments_preview - comment
    * comment_anchor - comment
    * comment_email - comment
    * comment_email_input - comment
    * comment_id - comment
    * comment_message - comment
    * comment_message_input - comment
    * comment_name - comment
    * comment_name_input - comment
    * comment_permlink - comment
    * comment_preview - comment
    * comment_remember - comment
    * comment_submit - comment
    * comment_time - comment
    * comment_web - comment
    * comment_web_input - comment
    * css - markup
    * custom_field - article
    * else - conditional
    * email - navigation
    * error_message - errorhandling
    * error_status - errorhandling
    * excerpt - article
    * expires - article
    * feed_link - markup
    * file_download - file
    * file_download_category - file
    * file_download_created - file
    * file_download_description - file
    * file_download_downloads - file
    * file_download_id - file
    * file_download_link - file - navigation
    * file_download_list - file - list
    * file_download_modified - file
    * file_download_name - file
    * file_download_size - file
    * hide - markup
    * if_article_author - article - conditional
    * if_article_category - article - conditional
    * if_article_id - article - conditional
    * if_article_image - article - conditional - image
    * if_article_list - article - conditional
    * if_article_section - article - conditional
    * if_author - conditional
    * if_category - conditional
    * if_comments - comment - conditional
    * if_comments_allowed - comment - conditional
    * if_comments_disallowed - comment - conditional
    * if_comments_error - comment - conditional
    * if_comments_preview - comment - conditional
    * if_custom_field - article - conditional
    * if_different - conditional
    * if_excerpt - article - conditional
    * if_expired - article - conditional
    * if_expires - article - conditional
    * if_first_article - article - conditional
    * if_first_category - conditional - structural
    * if_first_section - conditional - structural
    * if_individual_article - article - conditional
    * if_keywords - article - conditional
    * if_last_article - article - conditional
    * if_last_category - conditional - structural
    * if_last_section - conditional - structural
    * if_plugin - conditional
    * if_search - conditional - search
    * if_search_results - conditional - search
    * if_section - conditional
    * if_status - conditional - errorhandling
    * if_variable - conditional - programmer
    * image - image
    * image_display - image
    * image_index - image - list
    * keywords - article
    * lang - markup
    * link - link
    * linkdesctitle - link
    * linklist - link - list
    * link_category - link
    * link_date - link
    * link_description - link
    * link_feed_link - markup
    * link_id - link
    * link_name - link
    * link_to_home - navigation
    * link_to_next - navigation
    * link_to_prev - navigation
    * link_url - link
    * meta_author - markup
    * meta_keywords - markup
    * modified - article
    * newer - navigation
    * next_title - article
    * older - navigation
    * output_form - structural
    * page_title - markup
    * page_url - markup
    * password_protect - markup
    * permlink - article - navigation
    * php - programmer
    * popup - navigation
    * posted - article
    * prev_title - article
    * recent_articles - article
    * recent_comments - comment
    * related_articles - article
    * rsd - article
    * search_input - search
    * search_result_count - search
    * search_result_date - search
    * search_result_excerpt - search
    * search_result_title - search
    * search_result_url - search
    * search_term - search
    * section - navigation - structural
    * section_list - list - navigation - structural
    * site_name - markup
    * site_slogan - markup
    * site_url - markup
    * text - markup
    * thumbnail - image
    * title - article
    * txp_die - errorhandling - programmer
    * variable - programmer
    * yield - structural

els · 2010-10-22 21:01:06

hcgtv wrote:

Els, since you were in on the original classification of tags, could you give me a brief explanation of each category. I think that’s what’s missing in all of this, an explanation of what a Structural tag is as opposed to a Markup tag.

Bert, to be honest, I don’t think I can. The discussion in the thread you linked to in your first post is all that was said about it at the time. I really think Destry and Stef should be answering this, because they are the ones who contributed most to this classification.

Please note that breadcrumb, link_feed_link and text have no category at the wiki.

With the current categorization I’d put breadcrumb in navigation, as for the other two… no idea what to do with them. And that may actually be an indication that the current classification is at the least not perfect. But if it’s possible at all to have an exhaustive classification, where all tags fit in somewhere, I don’t know.
Maybe we could even do with only two main categories, Content and … er… don’t know, Presentation maybe? So Article, Image, Link and File could go under Content, and all the rest under Presentation (or whatever)?

maverick · 2010-10-22 21:35:08

I’m sort of butting in. So feel free to disregard if I’m adding little of use :)

Els wrote:

Maybe we could even do with only two main categories, Content and … er… don’t know, Presentation maybe? So Article, Image, Link and File could go under Content, and all the rest under Presentation (or whatever)?

From a quick scan of the tags categories, a Content category sounds very sensible – especially to new users. i.e. – if I want to out put content, which tags apply?

Having those tags mirror the Content/Presentation paradigm on the back end also helps with continuity and intuitiveness.

I’m not sure all tags fit well in just those two categories. Example: “yield” is more function or action or operation taking place than content or presentation.

Conditionals make sense – and they sort of fall into both function/action, as well as presentation or content.

fwiw

Mike

hcgtv · 2010-10-22 21:35:13

Els, then hopefully Stef could shed some light as to thinking behind the classifications.

Yeah, I put txp:breadcrumb in Navigation, txp:link_feed_link and txp:text into Markup.

As for the categories, I think the category should denote it’s main purpose, with a subcategory of fitting somewhere else. Let’s take txp:if_article_image, at present it has 3 categories, Article, Conditional and Image. I would give it a category of Conditional and a subcategory of Image. It will show up under Conditional, but also under Image to denote working with images. Putting it under Article also, even though it’s related to an article, adds too many tags to the Article main category and confuses things a bit.

I’m going to use the above logic and massage the tag categories, I’ll post here what I come up with.

Destry · 2010-10-22 21:35:52

If memory serves me correct, most of those categories are carried over from when there was the Tags by Category page (an editorial nightmare automated by using wiki :Categories), which in turn was modeled after Kusor’s original Tag site. So in some sense the categories are just artifacts of what’s always been. However there are some new categories too that took into account newer developments like “Programmer tags” and whatnot.

I’m not particularly beholden to the categories either, but just because a few veterans don’t need them doesn’t mean they aren’t working for somebody who’s relatively new to Txp, or even to the wiki. New users should be the common denominator here, and since none of us are new users, we really have no clear idea what is best without actually testing it with new users. Who’s going to do that? :)

Are there going to be more Txp tags over time? If so, I wouldn’t get rid of wiki categories. As more tags come into play, organization of the increased numbers of wiki pages is aided by having wiki categories. The question is just in the semantics, and that’s what we tried to zero in on before, but anyone is welcome to hone in on it again if the lightbulb is on upstairs.

You can put tag pages in more than one wiki category, btw, so if that’s a gripe it shouldn’t be (I can’t tell).

hcgtv · 2010-10-22 22:10:11

Destry, Kusor’s original tag site got me to thinking and I’ve been working on a Textpattern driven tag site. The idea behind it was spawned by looking at the backend Tag Builder interface, I touched on it in this thread.

By working on this site, I’ve had new way of looking at the tags and their categories. Since Textpattern is limited to 2 categories, when I hit tags with 3 categories, what to do about them has been sitting on my todo pad. While taking a step back, I’ve been studying tags and their categories, which is why this thread started.

Not so much as a conversation as to what to do at the wiki, but more as a new way of looking at things. What to do if you had a clean slate, and needed to subdivide tags according to their function in the grand scheme of things?

As for the website I’m working on, I don’t see it as a replacement for the wiki. The wiki should be the first stop any new user makes and is better suited for developer tag maintenance, but for the experienced user who wants quick access to the tags, it may prove useful. Couple it with a backend plugin to display it’s content, and the Tag Builder could be a casualty ;)

els · 2010-10-22 22:19:05

Destry wrote:

New users should be the common denominator here

Right. And new users are not going to read this topic. Those of us who are working on the wiki are mostly experienced users. I don’t really know how to determine what the less experienced user needs.

Destry · 2010-10-22 23:00:56

Els,

Honestly, I don’t think the categories are anything to worry about as they are in the wiki. They suit the medium well enough and experts easily jump over them. Besides, Bert says it himself, he’s not even interested in the wiki. Had we known that from the start I probably wouldn’t have logged in to reply. Just sayin’.

What we really should do, however, is get the logo changed. :)

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#1 2010-10-21 00:07:27

[wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#2 2010-10-21 17:23:33

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#3 2010-10-21 18:23:19

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#4 2010-10-22 18:16:43

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#5 2010-10-22 18:52:23

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#6 2010-10-22 21:01:06

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#7 2010-10-22 21:35:08

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#8 2010-10-22 21:35:13

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#9 2010-10-22 21:35:52

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#10 2010-10-22 22:10:11

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#11 2010-10-22 22:19:05

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

#12 2010-10-22 23:00:56

Re: [wiki] Textpattern Tags and their Categories

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