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#13 2020-01-15 10:24:35

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,435
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

I’m feeling like opening a Pandora box here, but since pageless sections are allowed (by mistake?) in 4.7, we can not simply forbid them in 4.8. Instead the patch you cite excludes them (by default) from sections and articles lists. You can still access their content explicitly setting section or id attributes, just mind that their URL will land you on ‘unknown section’ 404.

This makes it possible to publish e.g. book-type articles containing many ‘pageless’ chapters included via <txp:article_custom /> tag.

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#14 2020-01-15 10:35:47

jakob
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From: Germany
Registered: 2005-01-20
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

etc wrote #321105:

I’m feeling like opening a Pandora box here, but since pageless sections are allowed (by mistake?) in 4.7, we can not simply forbid them in 4.8. Instead the patch you cite excludes them (by default) from sections and articles lists. You can still access their content explicitly setting section or id attributes, just mind that their URL will land you on ‘unknown section’ 404.

This makes it possible to publish e.g. book-type articles containing many ‘pageless’ chapters included via <txp:article_custom /> tag.

So, this is akin to what we were talking about before, but using ‘pageless’ rather than ‘themeless’ or ‘non-url permlink schemes’? I think your suggestion sounds more logical, and ‘pageless’ means they are effectively also ‘url-less’ too. Out of interest, what would happen if you plugged them into the url? A 404?

I like the idea. Removing them from processing using txp:article (if they’re ‘url-less’ they would never define context) and in automatic section_list lists makes sense to me. Being able to explicitly output them via section="pageless-section-name" or id="{article-ids-from-pageless-section}" makes them usable wherever one needs them.

Will test as soon as I can…

EDIT: Oh, and thank you!


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#15 2020-01-15 10:57:41

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,481
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

I’m gonna play too later today, thank you. This looks like a terrific (even if its origins are slightly inadvertent!) addition to officially support pageless sections.


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#16 2020-01-15 12:29:11

phiw13
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From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,434
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

etc wrote #321105:

I’m feeling like opening a Pandora box here, […]

jakob wrote #321106:

So, this is akin to what we were talking about before, but using ‘pageless’ rather than ‘themeless’ […]

Ooh, this is growing beyond expectation. It does sounds intriguing though. I start (baby-baby steps) to understand what Jacob alluding to, I think, so this makes it interesting. I will try to play with it.


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#17 2020-01-15 13:21:28

etc
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Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,435
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

jakob wrote #321106:

So, this is akin to what we were talking about before, but using ‘pageless’ rather than ‘themeless’ or ‘non-url permlink schemes’? I think your suggestion sounds more logical, and ‘pageless’ means they are effectively also ‘url-less’ too.

Yes, that’s an easy way to create ‘items’. Not sure it’s a right way since it also creates exceptions, but I’m more or less convinced that the ‘right’ implementation would break bw compatibility.

Out of interest, what would happen if you plugged them into the url? A 404?

Yes, even index.php?id=34 would result in 404. Txp needs a page to parse content.

Bloke wrote #321108:

This looks like a terrific (even if its origins are slightly inadvertent!) addition to officially support pageless sections.

We should think twice, I would rather see it as a hack à la accessing status via <txp:custom_field /> atm.

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#18 2020-01-15 14:13:42

colak
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From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 8,684
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

etc wrote #321115:

see it as a hack à la accessing status via <txp:custom_field /> atm.

I’m all for documenting the undocumented custom_fields as part of the core:)


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#19 2020-01-15 14:20:15

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,481
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

I’m fine with keeping it as a hack, or exposing it as a feature – either now, or when we think it’s mature enough to not be a hack any more.

As for the custom fields hack, that’s so handy – especially with the new global attributes – that I’m in no hurry to remove it. In fact, it’s still allowed in the upcoming custom fields branch.


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#20 2020-01-15 22:28:03

phiw13
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From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,434
Website

Re: Required fields on Sections pane

+1 on Colaks suggestion of exposing/publicising/documenting the <txp:custom_fields /> hack more broadly as it is very handy.

But this particular hack or feature to use page-less sections, can we keep that “secret“ and officially unsupported to allow a bit of testing and maturing? I assume here that you plan to release TXP 4.8 soonish.


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#21 2020-01-16 12:48:58

Destry
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From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,751
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

Late here, as I’ve been heads down in docs. And I can’t say I exactly follow what has been decided or done at this point in discussion. But I’ve just been working feverishly on this section of the themes doc, and while I was running through functionality in the demo site to prepare that walk-through and images, I discovered that you could, in fact, choose the blank option in the new sections editor, and that was a wonderful discovery, IMO, because then when you setup a theme development environment, notably a reasonably large one like that walk-through demos, it makes it really easy to see where assets need to be assigned when setting the environment up.

Of course, that scenario is only for theme development situations where one is changing the architecture from whatever state a site is currently in, but I think the ability to do that — select blank assets on new sections — is a boon not to lose in that case.

If that has been changed since working on it yesterday, I’ll have to edit that doc, yet again, change all the images, and consider biting my cyanide tooth. (You have no idea.)

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#22 2020-01-16 13:04:04

Destry
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From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,751
Website

Re: Required fields on Sections pane

I’m not quite done editing and combing through the themes document yet, but I might as well now invite anyone thinking of creating or using a theme, to please give the document a read and trial run when you have the time, and let me know what is helpful and what is still confusing. That includes technical accuracy, devs.

The structure and sections labels might juggle around a bit more as I continue to make a stronger narrative through it while dividing it up for different audiences, but the bulk of it is in place for 4.8.

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#23 2020-01-16 20:26:09

etc
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Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,435
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Re: Required fields on Sections pane

Destry wrote #321125:

If that has been changed since working on it yesterday, I’ll have to edit that doc, yet again, change all the images, and consider biting my cyanide tooth. (You have no idea.)

No worries, comrade, blank options are still there and getting fun. Blank pages produce kinda ‘hidden’ sections/articles that can be used as ‘parts’ of other articles. Think of book chapters or multilingual articles etc. And mucho thanks for your hard work!

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#24 2020-01-16 22:02:05

Destry
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From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,751
Website

Re: Required fields on Sections pane

etc wrote #321146:

Blank pages produce kinda ‘hidden’ sections/articles that can be used as ‘parts’ of other articles. Think of book chapters or multilingual articles etc.

Book chapters, eh? That sounds really good.

And mucho thanks for your hard work!

Thank you. I’m just helping to pave the way for that mob of theme designers chomping at the bit. 👀

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