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#71 2020-11-20 11:16:59

gaekwad
Admin
From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 3,239

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

Destry wrote #326953:

(Not that I have the spare time to really pursue exploring it.)

I’m cherry picking this sentence to expand on a point, not dismissing anything else you’ve written. What follows is my 2c, any posturing or snark is unintended and certainly not directed at you.

This spare time thing is the crux of the issue for me. I am not an activist in the traditional sense, I dislike some organisations / platforms / ideologies and tend to adhere to a scale of avoidance from total to minimal. My dislike of social media is my current main beef, mostly because of the impact it’s having on people as a whole, but also having insight into some of the inner workings of how it all works (i.e. devs working on dopamine-driven design, the data mining involved, that sort of thing) is a compounding factor.

Bluntly, I can’t run a digital agency and eschew social media. I won’t survive. Likewise, I can’t tell clients to avoid Google, they’d laugh me out of the tender process. I can work with these platforms with a sensible level of involvement, and advise clients on where to draw the line. I don’t subscribe to any Google services, and my Gmail account is a holdout from the early days when it was launched (2001? I forget) that I still have since some ancient services I’d forgotten about still use it. I received a Paypal commission from some site or other I was working as an affiliate when my earned total topped 200 bucks, so there’s an intrinsic psychological value associated with this account…I know it’s not rational, but $200 in a year that my business has basically been shredded to nothing with COVID was very graciously received.

I don’t use WhatsApp, I don’t use Facebook, I don’t use Instagram. I have clients that use all three actively as part of their online presence. Crucially I don’t let them live in my head rent-free, if I’m asked I give my opinion on them, and go about my day. What Pete thinks isn’t going to change the mind of the masses one iota, and I’d much prefer to have a rational conversation (not a debate) with someone who’s interested in reducing their reliance on such-and-such to help them on their way.

There are a few threads relating to Google / Facebook around here that I’m subscribed to. I get the opposition, I really do. I signed up for it by getting involved in a project that essentially assists with owning what you write & create, empowering you to do it more freely and / or more often, and making it wicked fast. All you need is your own hosting. Here’s the software, here’s the manual, deep breath, go invade. Trouble? We’re here, don’t be a stranger.

I used to be a big Apple fan. My favourite laptop ever was the 12-inch G4 PowerBook. Perfect machine. Things slipped in recent years, attention has been on iPhones and iPads, Macs get less of a look-in, and the macOS experience has, for me at least, been lacking. I am used to being ribbed or mocked by Microsoft people. That’s fine. I don’t use Windows actively but I have clients that do, so I have to know it, to a lesser or greater degree. Microsoft Windows. Not Micro$oft Winblows, or MicroShaft. I see Apple referred to as Crapple still, and this whole company renaming thing just smacks of…well, it makes me wonder how much mind space they have that people are so venomous towards them. Back to the rent-free thing. WordPress. I do WordPress for clients, too. I am often baffled by how it works, but I use it because it runs a lot of the web and people who ask for help usually just want some help and don’t give two shits what you think about the thing they want help on.

This thread (all seven pages of it so far) pops up now and again in my inbox when the more activist-oriented and vocal forum folks bump it with updates. Some days I click the link to see what’s up, others I just delete it because I can’t handle it. I’m not ever consciously telling people what to do and not to do – I started minding my own business in about 2006 and I thoroughly recommend it – but I can say my life is much more bearable by choosing who / what has space in my head, and whether they pay rent or not.

I told myself I’d spend more of my spare time reading and writing this year, but sadly this hasn’t panned out as I’d‘ve liked. I have had a mostly positive Textpattern experience this year, despite the challenges that Real Life has thrown my (our) way, so I’d like to close by thanking you and everyone else for some valuable insights into your respective worlds. For completeness, some other posts / threads have given me a good laugh and made me audibly question whether the author is of sound mind or the tin foil has some bald spots…but then it wouldn’t be a forum without the personality, right? Good times.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

— Pete ‘gaekwad’ Cooper, user ID 7456, post number 3208, fifteen years and one day since joining this forum.

Last edited by gaekwad (2020-11-20 11:30:45)

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#72 2020-11-20 12:57:46

jakob
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From: Germany
Registered: 2005-01-20
Posts: 3,969
Website

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

Pete, I echo your sentiments in almost every way, and loved the way you wrote that too!

I’m probably not quite as principled as you, but still I try and choose as wisely as possible for myself where I can, and advise others on other ways where possible and viable. I’m fortunate to be able to work in contexts where I can sometimes influence decisions to a degree.

And, I agree too that threads like this, and other general/off-topic threads on this forum, are valuable for the added insight, and like you, some arguments/threads/insights I find compelling, others draw me into rabbit holes I can’t pursue and still others set off alarm bells in my head.

When’s the next TED talk? I’ll be there ;-)


TXP Builders – finely-crafted code, design and txp

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#73 2020-11-20 13:41:04

gaekwad
Admin
From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 3,239

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

jakob wrote #326955:

I’m fortunate to be able to work in contexts where I can sometimes influence decisions to a degree.

Actually, this is something I hadn’t considered and is very relevant. I do have the common clients with ‘normal’ needs, but a slowly increasing number are more aware of this stuff. It’s not something I get rabid about, but it’s nice when I have people contact me with need for a bulletproof server and full ownership / containment of their stuff.

When’s the next TED talk? I’ll be there ;-)

Thanks! Ironically, when I finally get my act together and actually write something – I know, the audacity – with this infernal CMS, I’ll have more idea on that.

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#74 2020-11-20 13:53:09

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,527
Website

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

All good, Pete, and rightly said.

I’d like to just elaborate on the subject of these kinds of threads, as I’ve often been the cause of them.

This thread and others like them in the Forum, certainly any that I have started as a failure of better judgement, and speaking for myself regardless, are reflections of the greater, temporal conversations and realizations taking place in the wild (i.e. outside of this forum) and my ever-changing (adapting being a better word) position in relation. I post such notions in here, hoping they’re not too out of scope, because I value the collective hive mind of this community that I’ve been a part of for 16 years and like to see how some of these things bounce with y’all against my own position. We certainly don’t always agree in this community, which is part of the value. One thing this community is not is an echo chamber.

To this thread specifically, I think nobody should take it any more seriously than as a place to vent about big tech then get on with the day. No harm done, but maybe a little good. ;)

That said, I know these kinds of threads are not for everybody, and maybe even put some people off, whether it’s the futility of the subject, or that someone actually likes Google, or simply recognizes that Google is entrenched in many business routines that are hard to avoid. On that note, I strongly recommend to anyone that dreads getting notifications to these threads to unsubscribe from them. Also, no offense taken if my threads on such topics are ignored, or even removed. I’ve said it before, mods have my advance permission to do so. I’m the last person to be hung up on thread perpetuity (a certain point of disagreement for many that was already kicked around in the GDPR thread, I believe).*

Truth be told, I don’t subscribe to threads here anymore unless I’ve specifically asked a tech or project related question (or I’ve started a thread on an ongoing investigation, such as the glossary setup still in progress), and as soon as I get that dope I unsubscribe again, pronto. I float through the forum on my own accord, or the occasional search, and that’s how I entertain it. I’ve come to really dislike auto email notifications filling up my inbox, no matter the source.

Finally, I’m like you, I try to avoid as much of the surveillance capitalism (and hardware capitalism) I can while still trying to make a few spondulicks, and more recently, while trying to get out of digital client services entirely. I’m almost there, if but dirt poor. That’s part of the interest, though, seeing what kind of tech portfolio and workflow can work, however unexpected with collaborators. ;) I’m still sucking up to Apple so far, but my late 2011 mbp can only take Sierra now, and I’m seriously thinking of making it an ubuntu machine. And old is new, after all, so having one of each can be part of the tech portfolio plan, clients or no.

* You may recall, on the contrary, that I think forum systems should have the equivalent of an account kill-all that satisfies GDPR for any account holder who wants to leave and wipe up their tracks without otherwise effecting other posts in a thread; kind of like a spreadsheet’s ‘clear cell data’ function as opposed to a delete entire column. One of the problems of web 1.0 software, imo, was the lack of foresight in such things. Such functionality is not something you could introduce into a community like ours now, I realize. That kind of thing has to be a part of a community from the start. All I’m saying is I’m not bothered by self-erasure if one decides to do that for themselves. GDPR makes a good framework for that situation.

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#75 2020-11-20 13:54:46

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,527
Website

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

jakob wrote #326955:

I’m probably not quite as principled as you, but still I try and choose as wisely as possible for myself where I can, and advise others on other ways where possible and viable. I’m fortunate to be able to work in contexts where I can sometimes influence decisions to a degree.

Exactly that. The good fight where it can be fought.

Last edited by Destry (2020-11-20 14:09:23)

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#76 2020-11-20 14:53:12

gaekwad
Admin
From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 3,239

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

Destry wrote #326958:

I’m still sucking up to Apple so far, but my late 2011 mbp can only take Sierra now, and I’m seriously thinking of making it an ubuntu machine. And old is new, after all, so having one of each can be part of the tech portfolio plan, clients or no.

This is not far off my own situation my daily driver is holding up just fine, I can pick up a used-but-tidy Mac mini from 2012 for under £200 / €250 typically, strip it down, fit a dual SATA adaptor, 16GB RAM, a couple of SSDs and – boom – perfectly serviceable. Catalina is…not for me UI-wise, Mojave is as far as I dare go, and I’m not touching anything newer until I absolutely must (or a dump truck of money arrives for a work gig, hehe).

I have a background task to see if I can set up a Linux workstation and see how I fare with that for daily use. There’s also another avenue that I could perhaps investigate that makes Not A Mac into Thinks It’s A Mac but can’t go into more detail lest Apple Legal is monitoring this thread. Drop me a line if you’re curious, anyone. You must declare if you’re Apple Legal, otherwise it’s entrapment. I’ve said too much. Ahem.

This is the longest-lasting community / forum that I’ve been involved with. My interest in Textpattern and its processes would be near zero were it not for the people that I’ve met and got to know over the years. I think I owe Stef about thirty beers now, and he owes me…what…4 lime and sodas?

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#77 2020-11-20 14:59:17

gaekwad
Admin
From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 3,239

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again

Destry wrote #326958:

I post such notions in here, hoping they’re not too out of scope, because I value the collective hive mind of this community that I’ve been a part of for 16 years and like to see how some of these things bounce with y’all against my own position. We certainly don’t always agree in this community, which is part of the value. One thing this community is not is an echo chamber.

Heavy +1 to this, for what it’s worth.

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#78 2020-11-21 01:22:57

bici
Member
From: vancouver
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 1,742
Website

Re: Fookin' Goog 'n' Farcebook again


…. texted postive

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