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#11 2019-10-11 21:38:43

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,842
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Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

gaekwad wrote #319677:

having archive and default do largely similar things is sending the wrong message.

Agree. We could work towards either make them obviously different enough that the penny drops faster, or go with one. I’m fine with either approach.

The trouble with only having one article is that it looks that there’s a direct one-to-one link between Page and Article. The trouble with having more articles is that there’s more to delete.

Last edited by Bloke (2019-10-11 21:39:59)


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#12 2019-10-12 06:40:03

gaekwad
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From: People's Republic of Cornwall
Registered: 2005-11-19
Posts: 2,633

Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

Bloke wrote #319679:

The trouble with only having one article is that it looks that there’s a direct one-to-one link between Page and Article. The trouble with having more articles is that there’s more to delete.

One article is fine. The content of it might need fresh eyes, and the docs site can be used more liberally as a destination, rather than trying to shoehorn more info into a single article where everything is new. Information density is key, I think, and learning styles for people are different. I’ll ponder for a while, there may not be a solution, especially if there’s no problem to solve.

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#13 2019-10-12 10:02:29

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,842
Website

Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

gaekwad wrote #319683:

One article is fine. The content of it might need fresh eyes

Yeah. If nothing else, this is a good goal.

I was just thinking back to what Oleg said about people making one Page per article and it’s something I’ve seen too on sites. So if there’s a way to break that implied link – either through documentation within the Page assets or in the welcome article through cleverly extracting bits of our orientation “bird’s eye view” doc – then that’d be cool too.


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#14 2019-10-12 10:23:49

etc
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Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,427
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Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

Bloke wrote #319684:

people making one Page per article and it’s something I’ve seen too on sites.

I think people often create sections for tagging or SEO purpose, since it’s the easiest way to have clean informative URLs. That’s not really what sections are designed for, but why not. The problem is that the default setup suggests one needs a page per section, and there it becomes a mess. We really should put a huge bold YOU DON’T NEED A PAGE PER SECTION somewhere.

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#15 2019-10-13 08:18:10

colak
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From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 7,382
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Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

etc wrote #319685:

I think people often create sections for tagging or SEO purpose, since it’s the easiest way to have clean informative URLs. That’s not really what sections are designed for, but why not. The problem is that the default setup suggests one needs a page per section, and there it becomes a mess. We really should put a huge bold YOU DON’T NEED A PAGE PER SECTION somewhere.

I’m guilty re this, for certain pages and I agree with you that it has to do with the urls which is an issue that at some point we need to bring onto the table.

SEO maybe one reason, but more importantly, it has to do with the semantic structure of sites. I have only used WP once in a c collaborative project that I was not the main person responsible for the site and the only thing that I found good in that system is the flexibility of the url structure which is not as absolute as ours.


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#16 2019-10-13 10:28:50

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,427
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Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

colak wrote #319690:

I agree with you that it has to do with the urls which is an issue that at some point we need to bring onto the table.

SEO maybe one reason, but more importantly, it has to do with the semantic structure of sites. … good in that system is the flexibility of the url structure which is not as absolute as ours.

AFAIR, we have discussed it many times. IMO, sections are not suited for content organisation, they rather reflect differences in the internal content structure. That will be especially true with upcoming custom-fields branch. It’s ok having a section for “galleries” and another one for “plugins”, since they have different data sets. But separating “dogs” and “cats” via sections looks wrong. Categories fit better here, but they are not mandatory, so we can not provide a general-purpose category/title permlink scheme in core.

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#17 2019-10-13 11:06:23

Vienuolis
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From: Vilnius, Lithuania
Registered: 2009-06-14
Posts: 184
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Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

colak wrote #319690:

flexibility of the url structure which is not as absolute as ours.

Really? The article URL pattern /title gives me unlimited flexibility: I can specify a /section-category-keywords-author-title-id here, if desired (manually, and maybe via cf or plugin).

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#18 2019-10-14 11:01:27

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 3,427
Website

Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

Actually, section/category1/category2/title and section/path/to/category permlink schemes seem natural, should we implement them?

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#19 2019-10-14 13:14:10

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 7,382
Website

Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

etc wrote #319698:

Actually, section/category1/category2/title and section/path/to/category permlink schemes seem natural, should we implement them?

Hi Oleg

With /category1/category2/, you mean the possible 2 categories of an article or /category/sub-category/...?


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——————————
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#20 2019-10-14 14:29:52

Vienuolis
Member
From: Vilnius, Lithuania
Registered: 2009-06-14
Posts: 184
Website

Re: RFC: design out the archive page template in the default theme

colak wrote #319699:

With /category1/category2/, you mean the possible 2 categories of an article or /category/sub-category/...?

In theory, and according to the rules of bibliography, both your variants should mean the same. In Textpattern, Category2 should act as a subcategory of Category1 — hierarchically, like in UDC. For tagging purposes, there are keyword one + keyword two + keyword three.

Edit: sorry, UDK is UDCUniversal Decimal Classification in English language.

Last edited by Vienuolis (2019-10-14 16:18:30)

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