Go to main content

Textpattern CMS support forum

You are not logged in. Register | Login | Help

#25 2018-03-25 20:10:49

gomedia
Plugin Author
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 1,357
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

Bloke wrote #310339:

But without some way to “start afresh” you’re forced into the even less intuitive mechanism of clicking the same tab again to clear the panel.

Surely web users are capable of understanding how to abandon work on a current page – i.e. go to a different one or close the window. I don’t get why all of a sudden a “start afresh” link is needed. You’re creating a rod for you own back – there’s no “Create section” on the Create section page etc etc. And besides the link text doesn’t describe the intended function – i.e. “start afresh”, “erase input”

I’m sure general UI guidelines somewhere frown on having redundant links to current page? A cursory look at one stated:

Links are a means for the user to navigate to other pages.

- “other” being the operative word.

And going back to the “Create article” text under the Publish button – it’s not even a link. It doesn’t provide any additional information to the user that the Write heading and the Publish button doesn’t already.

Offline

#26 2018-03-25 20:27:43

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,518
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

gomedia wrote #310355:

And going back to the “Create article” text under the Publish button – it’s not even a link. It doesn’t provide any additional information to the user that the Write heading and the Publish button doesn’t already.

It does for me, since Write heading and Publish button do not tell a new article (or a copy) from an existing draft.

Offline

#27 2018-03-25 21:37:20

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,523
Website GitHub

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

gomedia wrote #310355:

Surely web users are capable of understanding how to abandon work on a current page – i.e. go to a different one or close the window. I don’t get why all of a sudden a “start afresh” link is needed.

Sure. Not disputing that. It just seemed a bit odd to have the ability on most panels and not others where we can “create new”. The Categories panel is due for a complete overhaul so we’ve left that oddball alone for now. Files, Images and Plugins are different because you have to upload to create new. Pretty much everywhere else, we can (and do) offer a direct way to create a new asset: Section, Page, Form, Style, Author, Link, and Article (on list panel). And they’ve all been available since 4.6.2. The only panel without this was Write.

I’m not married to the idea of “new” links by any means. It’s weighing up their usefulness against the required additional screen furniture (and potential confusion, as you rightly highlight) compared to not having them. Some panels use buttons, others use links, we’ve touched on that before and it comes down to the way the panel is used.

If you’re in the middle of an article and want to abandon it, sure the path is more obvious – navigate away to discard your edits. But reading or tinkering with an old article you’ve written that inspires you to write another takes two clicks “Content->Write” vs one click “Create”.

Same if you’re checking a Form or Page template over: to create a new one takes two clicks on the menu bar, and we have to factor in two things here:

  • New users. “Sure, this template’s great, but how do I make my own one, dammit?”
  • The “last used” ability now means that if you (re)visit the Pages panel (for example) the last-used template is remembered. So clicking the menu now doesn’t start afresh. This happens on the Forms and Styles panels too.

Having the ability to duplicate or create a new one is one click away with the links. And without it, you can’t actually start afresh on the Pages, Forms and Styles panels now.

It comes down to how often these things are used and whether they’re generally useful. Would I miss them? Hardly. I use Duplicate a fair bit, but ‘new’? Not much, if ever. Am I typical or atypical? Don’t answer that ;-)

One could argue that having the ability to Create on an individual asset panel, there should be the ability to delete too? At the moment – aside from Pages and Styles – Delete is mostly reserved for multi-edit actions. Would anyone use direct deletion? Dunno. It’d take up more space unless we start hiding such actions behind a menu… which then negates the two-click-one-click thing (and that’s a shaky argument at best anyway).

I think two things will help:

1. The wording is probably less than ideal.
2. The position of the links might imply they carry more weight than they should (e.g. having ‘Create page’ at the top of the panel after you’ve started writing brand new content, without realising Save is down below the textarea).

Are these UX concerns? I’m not best versed to decide here. But we take all concerns into consideration and try to balance them as best we can, so thanks for keeping this alive as it’ll help shape the UI.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

Offline

#28 2018-03-26 00:10:53

gomedia
Plugin Author
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 1,357
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

etc wrote #310356:

It does for me, since Write heading and Publish button do not tell a new article (or a copy) from an existing draft.

Sorry don’t understand the reasoning. When an article is duplicated the button becomes “Save”, so obviously the article now exists. When the status changes to live the button becomes “Publish”. People can generally remember a couple of previous workflow steps anyway. So won’t get lost … a “Create article” label still seems a bit superfluous.

If it’s the right thing to do, where does it end: “Duplicated article, not published”, “Existing article, unedited” etc etc.

Offline

#29 2018-03-26 00:21:07

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,753
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

Regarding this…

Which I only see when on the Write panel in context of a new article not saved yet, and the button says “Save” not “Publish”…

Wouldn’t it clear things up if the button text read “Create article” in that context instead of “Save” or “Publish”? And that would be all you see in that context. Then in any other context — after an article has been created initially — the button text changes to “Save”.

I don’t think “Publish” makes sense unless you mean “Publish live”, but that’s not always the case. I never publish live first thing; always create first as a draft.

Maybe I’m oversimplifying functionality that’s more complex than what I take for granted. ;)

Offline

#30 2018-03-26 06:07:08

philwareham
Core designer
From: Haslemere, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,532
Website GitHub Twitter

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

I agree the ‘Publish’ button isn’t great UX. it would be nice if some AJAX determined whether ‘Live’ was set us the article status and changed between ‘Save’ and ‘Publish’ accordingly.

Offline

#31 2018-03-26 06:13:08

philwareham
Core designer
From: Haslemere, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,532
Website GitHub Twitter

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

Regarding the ‘Create article’ when on the Write page, and on Pages/Forms/Styles pages. Maybe just having them open in a new window/tab is enough to avoid the risk of data loss.

Also on Write page, maybe only show ‘Create new’ when editing a previously saved article, not when drafting an unsaved article?

Offline

#32 2018-03-26 06:19:54

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,753
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

philwareham wrote #310362:

Also on Write page, maybe only show ‘Create new’ when editing a previously saved article, not when drafting an unsaved article?

Your suggestion is similar to what I was suggesting too, and would be good if there’s a reason you have to keep “Save” on the button in all contexts. Otherwise, just changing the button text to “Create article” in that initial state would be better because it provides the extra clarity of what you’re actually doing with the button in that context.

Btw, I think you mean “Create article”?

Offline

#33 2018-03-26 06:45:42

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 8,724
Website GitHub Twitter

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

Why not just have simple words: New..., Publish, Save, Duplicate. The New... command is in most macOS software under the file menu.


Yiannis
——————————
neme.org | hblack.net | State Machines | NeMe @ github
I do my best editing after I click on the submit button.

Offline

#34 2018-03-26 06:51:27

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,474
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

Destry wrote #310360:

Regarding this…

Which I only see when on the Write panel in context of a new article not saved yet, and the button says “Save” not “Publish”…

Wouldn’t it clear things up if the button text read “Create article” in that context instead of “Save” or “Publish”? And that would be all you see in that context. Then in any other context — after an article has been created initially — the button text changes to “Save”.

I don’t think “Publish” makes sense unless you mean “Publish live”, but that’s not always the case. I never publish live first thing; always create first as a draft.

Maybe I’m oversimplifying functionality that’s more complex than what I take for granted. ;)

The ”Publish” string only appears when the status dropdown is set to Live or Sticky. Any other status it shows as “Save”. Labeling it “Create” or “Create Article” on a new, unsaved article might be a good addition though.


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

Offline

#35 2018-03-26 06:56:07

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,474
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

philwareham wrote #310362:

Regarding the ‘Create article’ when on the Write page, and on Pages/Forms/Styles pages. Maybe just having them open in a new window/tab is enough to avoid the risk of data loss.

Oh, please no. Don’t have that button open a new tab, that is annoying as hell.

Also on Write page, maybe only show ‘Create new’ when editing a previously saved article, not when drafting an unsaved article?

Or, although I think Destrys idea is better, make it appear as a hint / tip when on starting with a blank page (unsaved article), something using the .txp-form-field-instructions class – grey text.


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

Offline

#36 2018-03-26 07:04:27

phiw13
Plugin Author
From: Japan
Registered: 2004-02-27
Posts: 2,474
Website

Re: Feedback to: Textpattern CMS 4.7.0 beta 2 released

Also, as noted by @gomedia, yes on the Pages / Forms / styles panels, the “Create Page” link should not appear when already looking at a new page or form. I file Issue 1217 for that

(maybe something for TXP 4.7.1?)


Where is that emoji for a solar powered submarine when you need it ?

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB