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#11 2015-10-16 06:31:06

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,210
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

How have I misse kuopassa’s plugins? There are some very interesting ones there. I will buy the MarkItUp plugin and test.

I’d still be keen for a core solution though, even if I had to pay some funds to get it in there. I can’t rely on my clients learning Textile (or Markdown, even though they would likely be more familiar with that).

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#12 2015-10-16 06:44:53

wet
Developer
From: Lenzing, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,267
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

philwareham wrote #295836:

I’d still be keen for a core solution though, even if I had to pay some funds to get it in there.

Which begs the question: What should core do?

  1. Ship a WYSIWYG editor with core (e.g. CKEditor)
  2. Ship a syntax highlighter with core (e.g. CodeMirror)
  3. Ship a “human markup generator” user interface with core (e.g. markItup)

All three options are valid and serve a noticeable fraction of the target audience.

Additionally, we need to discuss and solve:

  1. Would we ship alternate “human markup generators” with core to add another checkpoint to our marketing blurb (e.g. Markdown)
  2. How does this all fit into the “installable text filters” concept and into a general pluggable architecture?

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#13 2015-10-16 07:37:10

hcgtv
Plugin Author
From: Miami, Florida
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,634
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

philwareham wrote #295836:

How have I missed kuopassa’s plugins?

My reply, for risk of thread deviation, is here.

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#14 2015-10-16 08:15:47

sacripant
Plugin Author
From: Rhône — France
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 478
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

My point of vue.

Please, don’t make the mistake of imposing a solution in the core.
Each project and each user can have his preferences (markup langage, WYSIWIG, live preview etc).
Each option can be activated or desactivated.
Plugins are made for that.

For me it’s better to improve the core for :

  • Use the markup of choice for all fields and custom fields (and not only body and excerpt) in article panel but for fields in images too.
  • Add the possibility to add new “markup system” and other system (yes wyswyg too) of your choice in “markup select”.

If Textpattern is a CMS, it must be adaptable and not impose anything.
If you impose a solution, Textpattern become a specialised solution, as in his begining : a blogging system.
I would even advocate to out Textile of Txp corp and make an “official “ plugin.

Yes, I want have the possibility to choose Textile for except, a wysiwig for Body, markdown for a custom field, etc.

@Phil, and I thinks it’s possible to have a plugin maintained over time which improve the write panel as you want, if you have other interested users which want pay for that.

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#15 2015-10-16 08:22:35

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,210
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

Thanks Bert.

@robert

My opinion on this is…

Ship a “human markup generator” user interface with core (e.g. mark-up)

We just need a tool to help users format text without necessarily having prior knowledge of the Markdown/Textile syntax – this has the additional benefit of gradually teaching the syntax as the user will see that syntax added to text when they click the UI. We can also turn it off for users that don’t need/want the feature.

From my experience with full HTML generators (such as CKEditor), they produce some pretty nasty HTML sometimes (such as empty divs and spans and inline styling). I would not be keen on that kind of editor at all. Rachel Andrew over at Perch has done several talks on the topic of CMS WYSIWYGs and they also favour the markup interface approach (although they have opted for Redactor, which is a closed route for us).

The author of SimpleMDE hasn’t the time to produce a Textile version as he feels it’s too niche for him, but he would happy to see someone else take his code and proceed a version for Textile (it’s MIT licensed anyway). Not sure if that is an option or if MarkItUp is better. MarkItUp also has BBcode and Wiki Syntax support if in the future someone created Textpattern textfilters for those (which isn’t likely, but is probably possible).

Would we ship alternate “human markup generators” with core to add another checkpoint to our marketing blurb (e.g. Markdown)

I would ship the Markdown option in core, yes, but have Textile as the default setting (changeable in the prefs or at an article level if possible? Don’t know how that would be interchangeable with any current content). Markdown won – it’s time to accept that (although I prefer the Textile syntax personally).

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#16 2015-10-16 08:44:35

Algaris
Member
From: England
Registered: 2006-01-27
Posts: 446

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

Bloke wrote #295827:

I don’t think I’ve found one that writes decent HTML yet and allows hassle-free editing after the fact (though maybe I’ve not looked hard enough). Baffles me how TinyMCE is so popular.

philwareham wrote #295843:

From my experience with full HTML generators (such as CKEditor), they produce some pretty nasty HTML sometimes (such as empty divs and spans and inline styling). I would not be keen on that kind of editor at all.

I completely agree with both of you. Every HTML editor I’ve used produces a spaghetti mess when you switch to HTML view. I’m using the Atto text editor for my works Moodle. It’s far better than TinyMCE but even copy and pasting text within the editor results in a mass of spans and inline styles.

Whichever editor you chosen I’d prefer one that produces clean code/markup without adding to or changing my formatting.

Last edited by Algaris (2015-10-16 09:03:10)

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#17 2015-10-16 09:30:51

sacripant
Plugin Author
From: Rhône — France
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 478
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

Markdown won

in the web, there is no victory. Just phenomenon and trend.

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#18 2015-10-16 09:39:52

hcgtv
Plugin Author
From: Miami, Florida
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,634
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

sacripant wrote #295845:

in the web, there is no victory. Just phenomenon and trend.

Well said sir, well said.

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#19 2015-10-16 09:42:53

sacripant
Plugin Author
From: Rhône — France
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 478
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

A link to a older discussion with same question and some good reflections: Improvements to editor

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#20 2015-10-20 00:37:24

jstubbs
Moderator
From: Hong Kong
Registered: 2004-12-13
Posts: 2,394
Website

Re: Improved Text Editor Capability

Just released from Basecamp – Trix looks interesting.

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