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#13 2015-08-01 06:07:58

gomedia
Plugin Author
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 1,367
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

No offend to Oleg, but I’m not sure about etc.

Could the fourth categorise option be Keywords instead?

How about changing <txp:etc /> to “… and many more”.

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#14 2015-08-01 12:02:43

maverick
Member
From: Southeastern Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-01-14
Posts: 975
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

I know that you were given feedback about changing the order, and I think you may be trying to incorporate those suggestions. For me, having the tags in the second position in the work flows feels off.

It isn’t possible to draw clear and district boundaries. (i.e. plugins / some add tags / some add admin features.) Tags are sort of like that. They are distinct from pages/forms, yet they are not – that’s where they live.

My approach would be to have the pages/forms/etc before the tags, or combine them into two parts of the same step with tags directly under the graphics for pages/forms, etc.

Then add a step representing the output. webpage, blog, image gallery, etc. The stuff the end users want/use.

edit: I like gomedia’s suggestion that option 4 be keywords.

Last edited by maverick (2015-08-01 12:03:45)

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#15 2015-08-01 13:23:02

candyman
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 684

Re: What is Textpattern?

gomedia wrote #293891:

Could the fourth categorise option be Keywords instead?

I’d like a generic “others…”

gomedia wrote #293891:

How about changing <txp:etc /> to “… and many more”.

Personally I like it: make me think to TXP Swiss-army knife! etc all the things!

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#16 2015-08-01 14:57:39

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,851
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

gomedia wrote #293891:

How about changing <txp:etc /> to “… and many more”.

+1 — The way it is now looks like a tag that actually exists but doesn’t, which would be confusing to people who don’t already know that, and they are the target audience here, right?

maverick wrote #293896:

For me, having the tags in the second position in the work flows feels off. … have the pages/forms/etc before the tags.

+1 — Conceptually speaking, you have to establish the framework before you can add the tag relationships and behavior, regardless of what type of site it will be or what audience you’re talking too. The sooner you start telling people that, the sooner they are educated on the semantics and build process. This diagram, being at .com, will be first contact with potential new users, so it’s a good time to start hitting that message home.

For what it’s worth, I also sense an aim here to hype the “theming” aspect that’s coming. I wouldn’t try to do that. For one thing, theming speaks to designers and bloggers, for the most part. Publishing people (going back to my previous argument) don’t care about that; they care about publishing content and making that process easier. Also theming is another one of those “content from presentation” features that most every system can boast in some way or another. Finally, theming will sell itself easy enough; it’s like poop for flies. And in any case, I’m sure it will be mentioned in other .com content and all over the place in due order. Never mind. I must be high. For some reason I thought I saw the word “theming” in there. Going back to my varnishing.

On the other hand, if you create a diagram specifically centered on the idea of theming, that would be great for the theme sub-domain, or wherever that landing content will end up. I could even use something like that in the user docs.

Last edited by Destry (2015-08-01 15:06:02)

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#17 2015-08-01 17:09:04

zero
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2004-04-19
Posts: 1,453
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

Thanks for this enlightening topic, Giz, Destry and others. You’ve made me think simpler, giz, and something clicked with your description of what is happening with content strategy in the business world, Destry. I struggled to fit plugins into the overview of things as I have always thought of them as added extras, but I like how you put them with presentation, giz. I would change the order of things just a bit now, as follows:

1 Define and categorise your content using an easy browser-based interface – as you’ve got it

2 Organise your presentation with Textpattern’s extensible templating system – Pages, Forms, Styles (and plugins) (maybe can go here?)

(Plugins image to go in between or covering both)

3 Refine how it all functions with simple tags (and plugins) (maybe can go here?) – using <etc> or just etc without txp prefix?

4 Flexible publishing, done your way – with images of content like Maverick described above.

Your extendable made me look in the dictionary and extensible and extendible can also be used

Last edited by zero (2015-08-01 17:12:18)


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Wondrous Healing Wondrous ways to a healthy old age

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#18 2015-08-01 20:52:38

giz
Member
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2004-07-26
Posts: 228
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

Thanks all.

I’m not fussed about the order of (2) and (3) – I think it works both ways.

I need to point out: these are not flow diagrams – they are relationship diagrams. My first sketch included an arrow which implied flow, so I’ve dropped this from the latest diagram and plan to show logic flow via hover / tapping – at least thats the plan. A description of an optimal work flow would be a different diagram.

I still don’t get how Plugins belong with the tags – we call on a plugin’s functionality by using its tags (unless its an admin plugin), and not by “inserting the plugin into the code…” Or have I been getting it rong all these years? ;-)

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#19 2015-08-02 02:56:38

maverick
Member
From: Southeastern Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-01-14
Posts: 975
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

giz – I have the same thought – plugins don’t belong with tags. they don’t’ really fit in just one place, but plugins usually do a lot more than just tags.

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#20 2015-08-02 12:54:19

zero
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2004-04-19
Posts: 1,453
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

giz wrote #293906:

I still don’t get how Plugins belong with the tags – we call on a plugin’s functionality by using its tags (unless its an admin plugin), and not by “inserting the plugin into the code…” Or have I been getting it rong all these years? ;-)

You say it yourself how a plugin belongs with tags, right there! Because a plugin is called with tags. That’s one newbie’s understanding. Another newbie will see a plugin as a bunch of code that alters the txp:code by inserting it via tags. Another newbie will see it predominantly as something you have to install to get an essential function, eg contact form. Another will see plugins as something fairly irrelevant, it’s how the core works that’s relevant. Different newbies will see plugins differently. How does Textpattern want newbies to see plugins?

Also is the newbie a publisher, designer, developer or something else? The last line of your sketch suggests a publisher and further back in the thread, you say you want to target the broadest demographic. This forum is mostly about developers. Designers and publishers have become secondary on this forum. But as Destry points out, publishers (and their own designers and developers) are the main target audience for Textpattern to aim for. I should imagine (because I don’t actually know) that a manager or researcher will be the first person to look on behalf of a publishing enterprise. I imagine (again) that the first line of your sketch will make sense, the 2nd and 3rd will vaguely make sense and the last line will hopefully prompt them to ask one of their devs to check Textpattern out.

So, to my limited understanding, for many newbies your sketch is fine, it’s enough info for quick absorbtion, I don’t think it will deter them from continuing to read.


Gud One Blog
Wondrous Healing Wondrous ways to a healthy old age

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#21 2015-08-02 15:00:27

etc
Developer
Registered: 2010-11-11
Posts: 4,665
Website GitHub

Re: What is Textpattern?

Nice and useful work, thanks. My two kopecks:

  • as maverick and zero said, plugins (admin or public) can add just everything you need: tags, functionality, workflow… They are important part of Textpattern, and I wouldn’t restrict their contribution to just <txp:my_plugin />.
  • I don’t like the tags soup very much, we’d better replace it with some short and meaningful example (<txp:article /> with few article tags inside?)
  • etc is a reserved prefix, please contact my lawyer (: he he :)

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#22 2015-08-04 00:53:34

giz
Member
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2004-07-26
Posts: 228
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

Thanks, etc.

I have a plan to get around the terse nature of the diagram – see my next post when it happens…

Re: tag soup vs real code – agreed, apart from the problem it introduces visually (an undefined ‘shape’ vs. a simpler ‘shape’)…

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#23 2015-08-04 01:35:00

giz
Member
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2004-07-26
Posts: 228
Website

Re: What is Textpattern?

Some minor revisions to the base diagram (one of them due to legal threats ;-):

!https://raw.githubusercontent.com/all-sorts/Textpattern.com-design/master/sketch/Textpattern%20Sketch%2002.png!

I’m planning on plonking svg directly into a <txp:form /> – all styling can be self contained within the svg. Fallback to png.

The plan is that the elements in the diagram are ‘clickable’, as suggested below.

These are 1st drafts of 4 overlays – more to come. (Bring it on with the comments and suggestions).

Sections
!https://raw.githubusercontent.com/all-sorts/Textpattern.com-design/master/sketch/Section.png!

Organising
!https://raw.githubusercontent.com/all-sorts/Textpattern.com-design/master/sketch/Organising.png!

Page
!https://raw.githubusercontent.com/all-sorts/Textpattern.com-design/master/sketch/Page.png!

Form
!https://raw.githubusercontent.com/all-sorts/Textpattern.com-design/master/sketch/Form.png!

We could include links to the relevant part of the docs in the sidebar.

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#24 2015-08-04 05:59:00

candyman
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 684

Re: What is Textpattern?

Well done.

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