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#31 2015-06-18 12:14:04

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,196
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

hcgtv wrote #291651:

My idea was to provide a mechanism for a newbie to get up and going on TXP quickly…

This would be OK by me in the short term – get the directory structure agreed now with a basic import mechanism – lays the groundwork for a more complex solution in the future post 4.6 (which has enough unfinished features already as it is).

Plugins are a real problem, and one that WordPress hasn’t really solved satisfactorily themselves even with all their collective knowledge and skills.

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#32 2015-06-18 12:14:45

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,672
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

hcgtv wrote #291651:

Simple themes don’t require plugins, and a README would point the user towards any config changes they would need to make.

Smart and simple. Do people read READMEs? ;-)

Now if someone has an e-commerce theme they want to sell and it includes the kitchen sink of plugins and preference changes, then they should just package up a complete Textpattern installation if that’s the case.

I concur. To do otherwise is a minefield.

Packaging up plugins with a theme is a bad idea

Yes and no. Yes, because of the potential rot you cite. But no if the goal is to get people up and running quickly with a theme. If a template uses a plugin tag then installing the template without it and hitting refresh on the public site will potentially generate a truckload of missing tag errors. And if they do visit the currently ghastly .org site to find the author’s site has gone away and there’s no local cached copy, it’s no fun and a round trip to the forum. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t *sigh*.

This probably needs considering alongside a better plugin upgrade mechanism which is something gaekwad and I chatted about recently. At least if a plugin is bundled with a theme and it’s out of date, a quick trip to the Admin->Plugins panel will show the offending monster in the closet and permit kicking off a simple upgrade procedure to restore balance… assuming the newer version hasn’t made any backwards-incompatible changes with the tags used in the theme.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#33 2015-06-18 12:17:32

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,196
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

Bloke wrote #291654:

This probably needs considering alongside a better plugin upgrade mechanism which is something gaekwad and I chatted about recently. At least if a plugin is bundled with a theme and it’s out of date, a quick trip to the Admin—>Plugins panel will show the offending monster in the closet and permit kicking off a simple upgrade procedure to restore balance.

Composer or Git tags could solve this maybe – but that would rely on plugin authors actually using Composer and/or Git.

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#34 2015-06-18 12:20:32

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,672
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

philwareham wrote #291656:

Composer or Git tags could solve this maybe – but that would rely on plugin authors actually using Composer and/or Git.

I’m fully on board with git. Composer less so, but that’s due to not having used it much. Is it unrealistic to expect / demand users use such a system to author their Txp plugins so we get the benefit?

I can’t see git going away any time soon, but eggs… basket…


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#35 2015-06-18 12:21:34

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,672
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

NicolasGraph wrote #291652:

Packaging is a way to be sure plugins versions work with the theme, no?

Assuming Txp core hasn’t altered in the meantime. Though not exactly plugin related, remember the <txp:sitename> / <txp:site_name> debacle with early themes?


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#36 2015-06-18 12:28:35

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,672
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

hcgtv wrote #291651:

The forum thread that started it all, I can’t believe it was 8 years ago.

Yeah, there’s glacial and then there’s Textpattern. Mañana.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#37 2015-06-18 12:31:53

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,196
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

There is no massive need for plugins bundled in a simple theme (although this whole mechanism is something to think about for future). What we do need is a description field in the editor (for use in meta description, Open Graph, Twitter cards, etc) – it drives me nuts having to use convoluted ways of getting this info onto a site without using a plugin. Also, built in form tags a la zem_contact_reborn would be a real boon – most sites have a contact form or something similar don’t they? Sorry, that’s a bit off topic.

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#38 2015-06-18 12:32:30

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 7,288
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

philwareham wrote #291639:

The whole thing would have to be handled as flat files in my opinion. I think the whole database thing for handling forms/pages/css/js is a outdated model of Textpattern that I would not be keen on keeping.

IMHO I like the fact that everything is in a db and accessible from any computer with a browser. Admittedly I always have rvm_css in my installs but I also install spf_js so as to get my javascript files in/out the database too.


Yiannis
——————————
neme.org | hblack.net | LABS | State Machines | Respbublika! | NeMe @ github

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#39 2015-06-18 12:35:08

philwareham
Core designer
From: Farnham, Surrey, UK
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 3,196
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

colak wrote #291661:

IMHO I like the fact that everything is in a db and accessible from any computer with a browser.

Yes, as I said, having a way of editing the templates within the control panel is something I’d be keen to keep – the database is irrelevant to that.

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#40 2015-06-18 12:39:32

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 8,672
Website

Re: Textpattern themes: a plan

philwareham wrote #291660:

There is no massive need for plugins bundled in a simple theme (although this whole mechanism is something to think about for future).

True. Just wanted to throw it out there, ‘cos if it can be solved to a satisfactory degree, it make themes a lot more flexible out of the gate.

What we do need is a description field in the editor

Just add it. Seems we backed the wrong horse by adding Keywords and not Meta Description all those years ago. Assuming meta description as a <head> tag is going to stay, even now Uncle Google is semantically aware and the tag is arguably superfluous.

built in form tags a la zem_contact_reborn would be a real boon

That I’m not convinced about, even though I’ve never built a site without the plugin1. With the rate of change in W3C policy, a plugin is the only way to keep pace!

1 Oh wait, there’s one, but that was on an intranet.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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