The direction of Textpattern 5

aswihart · 2011-01-30 00:03:13

Out of curiosity I’ve been trying to get into the Python-based Django framework, and there is another project built on Django called Pinax, which has various installation options like “basic”, “social”, or “company”. These are all basically custom Django installations with an assortment of “apps” (Django plugins) pre-installed and integrated into the basic admin / public site template, giving you a website framework that is geared to what you are going to use it for. It’s just Django, a very customizable program, so you can add any number of additional apps or replace those included with the Pinax install. It just saves you a lot of work building commonly required features, as they say “so you can focus on what makes your site different”.

It would be cool if at some point Txp gave you some flavor of this following the initial configuration (or when and however it would be best implemented), perhaps just giving you a choice to install various groupings of synergistic plugins to provide commonly needed features, which are left out of Txp core. Basic templating might be considered as well, in essense extending the Txp base admin / public theme to reflect the functionality of all of the plugins you have installed. So you could pick during installation whether you want to start working on a community site, an e-commerce site, a blog, or a photo gallery, with corresponding collections of actively-supported Txp plugins that add all the common features those sites demand.

Maybe Textpattern is quick enough to set up that the whole idea is moot, I don’t know. The learning curve for Django has been much steeper and longer than it was with Txp (although I’m starting to really like it), so Pinax was much appreciated when I found it.

Last edited by aswihart (2011-01-30 01:12:17)

Neko · 2011-01-31 22:01:38

I agree with Dale here.

Recently, I’ve started working for this agency that maintains a load of WP sites and sometimes I have to take care at some of them.

Well, soon enough (5.2 seconds later, to be precise) WP became the bane of my existence. As much as I respect the good people behind WP such as Matt, Alex, et al, I bloody hate WP. I hate its templating system. Whoever came up with that hideous crap should be (gently) punched in the neck at least once per hour.

That said, one thing WP shines at is that it is very easy on the client. I mean, writing posts is very nice. You get a WYSIWYG interface. You get to upload images and media directly from the write tab. You can bloody insert images and media into posts directly from the write tab. These little details actually make up for everything else (themes, you be damned!!!!1).

I mean, I love Textile and I’d use it for almost anything, it’s just that TXP should be more like WP when it comes to posting stuff. Easy on the client, more AJAX-y, more integrated and less nerdish.

Right now it’s a bit way too hardcore for the regular users. Should TXP try to replicate some of WP’s features, nothing would stop our beloved software from world domination. There, I said it. ‘Cause what is the point of being the best if you’re not also the number one? :O

Last edited by Neko (2011-01-31 22:06:46)

logo1664 · 2011-02-01 02:05:35

gomedia wrote:

and, please, no more:

Add article

List articles to get new ID

Memorise ID

Go to another tab

Forget ID

Go back to article list

Memorise ID again

Go to that other tab somewhere

Type in ID

Drag & drop? Multiple admin panes – Articles on one side, Forms on the other?

How about http://awasteofwords.com/software/wet_quicklink-link-builder-for-textpattern?

raveoli · 2011-02-01 17:09:31

I agree with the comments here that usability and end-users/clients should also be a focus.

And while I think it’s a good idea to start the codebase anew, all fresh and funky, I urge you to look at MODx CMS as an example.

The MODx Revolution version 2.0 (or whatever they called the rewritten version) is a geeks wet dream. All OOP, all MVC, but they totally lost sight of the end-users… the terminology in MODx 2.0 is so crazy. They have so many overlapping terms. It’s totally dark speech to me.

What I’m saying is, while it’s good to start all over on a codebase/project, it can easily end up being a programmers wet dream come true, yet present little practical benefit. WordPress is maybe too focused on end-user usability, and less on a lean codebase, but I make a living working with clients daily, helping them use WordPress better, develop their sites, etc. And it’s such a pleasing thing to hear them say “ahhh, so it’s really THAT easy to update my menu, wauw, thanks Oliver, I’m happy!” and that is, in the end, what makes or breaks the success of a platform.

Textpattern was originally made by a graphic designer (Dean Allen) who is not a programmer. That’s what made Textpattern the piece of software I loved to use for developing sites. It was lean, and used terminology that I as a graphic design (and usablity) oriented person LOVED. Then Dean lost interest in the project, and some geeks took over. Some of them were terrible communicators. They made me run away screaming, and deem Textpattern dying a slow death. Now there are new developers aboard, and they seem well intentioned, but not very focused on what made Textpattern what it was from the beginning, because they’re more focused on code. In other words, the dev team needs not just coders but also a visionary leader, and people focused on usability. Believe it or not, usability is hard work to get right.

Otherwise, years will pass, and then the big day will come where Textpattern 5 is released. And some people wil be like: “What’s new?” and the devs will be like: “It’s now OOP/MVC, isn’t it awesome?” and the response will be “ehm… yeah? but so what? it still doesn’t allow me to do XYZ…”

maruchan · 2011-02-01 17:36:08

The MODx Revolution version 2.0 (or whatever they called the rewritten version) is a geeks wet dream. All OOP, all MVC, but they totally lost sight of the end-users… the terminology in MODx 2.0 is so crazy.

Agreed. There’s an example of flexibility being given the run of the place. ModX became more of a programmerly software package and lots of people (myself included) are resisting the upgrade and asking for solid reasons why we need to drag ourselves through it.

MVC is great, but the promise of MVC always seems one or two steps removed from typical CMS users: “With MVC we’ll really have a great platform to build upon” is really still one step away from being an actual feature. :-)

Pat64 · 2011-02-02 10:35:04

Neko wrote:

That said, one thing WP shines at is that it is very easy on the client. I mean, writing posts is very nice. You get a WYSIWYG interface. You get to upload images and media directly from the write tab. You can bloody insert images and media into posts directly from the write tab. These little details actually make up for everything else (themes, you be damned!!!!1).
I mean, I love Textile and I’d use it for almost anything, it’s just that TXP should be more like WP when it comes to posting stuff. Easy on the client, more AJAX-y, more integrated and less nerdish.
Right now it’s a bit way too hardcore for the regular users. Should TXP try to replicate some of WP’s features, nothing would stop our beloved software from world domination. There, I said it. ‘Cause what is the point of being the best if you’re not also the number one? :O

Absolutly. That’s my point of view too.

masa · 2011-02-05 01:09:42

Very pleased to see Jeff on the Dev team!

I don’t really understand much of the technical aspects you were discussing previously, since I simply create Textpattern sites with whatever tags and plugins are available in the current version.

From reading this forum for years now I get the impression, that every new version tends to shake up plugin-land quite a bit (MLP, glz_custom_fields etc.). So perhaps it might be a good time to consider incorporating a few plugins/tags into the core as the Devs did with the image tags allowing us to build galleries right out of the box.

I take it, that unlimited categories are on the wish list for v5. But I also think, that integrating something similar to glz_custom_fields, multiple language support and a simple image editor (ebl_image_edit) could make Textpattern more powerful and attractive.

This is just my personal opinion as an end user. I’m well aware of the general desire to keep Textpattern lean.

masa · 2011-02-05 01:12:51

Pat64 wrote:

Absolutly. That’s my point of view too.

…and I agree with Neko and Patrick, too.

nico · 2011-02-07 08:35:01

I would like to see a solid support for multi language sites in TXP 5. The existing solution for TXP 4 is not very convenient.

mrdale · 2011-02-07 16:03:48

masa wrote:

I take it, that unlimited categories are on the wish list for v5. But I also think, that integrating something similar to glz_custom_fields, multiple language support and a simple image editor (ebl_image_edit) could make Textpattern more powerful and attractive.

Couldn’t agree more. Universal, ul cats + custom content types built from the ground up would thoroughly modernize this CMS. From a site builder’s perspective it would remove hundreds of lines of tag soup required to build sophisticated sites.

merz1 · 2011-02-07 16:54:50

New Strategy of future safe adoption: Not plug-in integration but core development team ‘adoption’?

What about adding core worthy plug-ins to a new core plug-in stable/barn?

Commitment, trust, safety are 1st class arguments which come to my mind. Supported feature enhancements and performance are (my) 2nd class arguments.

Example: rss_auto_excerpt or asy_jpcache are orphaned plug-ins where I would like to see such a commitment.

maverick · 2011-02-07 18:17:03

merz1 wrote:

a new core plug-in stable/barn

I like the idea of certain key plugins becoming “core sanctioned plugins”. This would fit well with the creation of a basic core sanctioned comment plugin.

merz1 wrote:

Example: rss_auto_excerpt

if it were only up to me :)

I know everyone has a plugin that they’d argue should be in the core. rss_auto_excerpt just happens to be one I’d like to see there.

I’d actually prefer the excerpt field be devolved to just another custom field (seems to me that it is simply a pre-defined custom field anyway, with a special tie-in to certain tags.) and rss_auto_excerpt become the standard way of handling excerpts.

It’s all I use anymore for excerpts, and from a semantics standpoint is more true to the world “excerpt” than an so-called excerpt field that can have completely unrelated content if one so choses. Plus it seems like a more simple and elegant way of handling excerpts.

Last edited by maverick (2011-02-07 18:18:51)

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Textpattern CMS support forum

#73 2011-01-30 00:03:13

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#74 2011-01-31 22:01:38

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#75 2011-02-01 02:05:35

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#76 2011-02-01 17:09:31

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#77 2011-02-01 17:36:08

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#78 2011-02-02 10:35:04

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#79 2011-02-05 01:09:42

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#80 2011-02-05 01:12:51

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#81 2011-02-07 08:35:01

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#82 2011-02-07 16:03:48

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#83 2011-02-07 16:54:50

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

#84 2011-02-07 18:17:03

Re: The direction of Textpattern 5

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