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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
jstubbs wrote:
I don’t think Textbook is the right place for code tips. As one who has advocated that the various TXP sites become one – TXP resources as plugins.textpattern.com, Textbook to docs.textpattern.com etc, this might strike you as odd, but I believe that TXP Tips and Textbook How-to’s should be separate…
I think opposite but anyway. In example some examples can be really bad, but ppl use them as they find them from TXP tips. But what about Wiki? Yes, in wiki we all can improve tips, when TXP tips is on owners shoulders.
And why shouldn’t Tips be added to the Textbook. Information in one place is better, than it is scrattered all over the web. Searching and finding is more easier, plus now you post old tips to new place. What it does? Cause double content. What it does? Might drop (or makes the position worst) the content from SE. What it does? No one finds it.
But anyway, good site (or atleast might become) if it gets it own content with out copying other’s content with out providing links.
Btw, Tips that are taken from somewhere else, should in my opinion just be quoted and linked with information that states who did it, where and when. Remember in future ;) That is even more helpful; SE position, external linking, copyright laws etc.
Last edited by Gocom (2008-09-27 15:29:02)
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
jstubbs wrote:
I was asking for two reasons:In my view Textbook serves as the main reference point for TXP – how-to’s on using forms, templates and tags is all perfectly correct, and there will likely be an overlap between TXP Tips and Textbook How-to’s. However, I don’t think Textbook is the right place to post all and every type of TXP code snippets and how-to’s (in my opinion). Where TXP Tips should start is where Textbook stops – further site building tips and code examples for TXP users.
- the third posted tip (using forms for headers/footers) is something that I think fits very well in Textbook. Duplicating stuff makes little sense. The other two tips involve 3rd party software, so those don’t fit in Textbook (IMHO). Perhaps some of the tutorials in Textbook would fit better on your Tips website.
- does it still make sense to leave the Howto forum open for tips that don’t belong in Textbook if such tips are all gathered on your Tips website. And are all posted tips in the Howto forum moved/copied to either Textbook or TXP-Tips or are some left behind in the Howto forum. In the latter case, users have to look in three locations (four, if we’re counting TXP.org, which also has a tips section, btw).
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
ruud wrote:
the third posted tip (using forms for headers/footers) is something that I think fits very well in Textbook. Duplicating stuff makes little sense. The other two tips involve 3rd party software, so those don’t fit in Textbook (IMHO). Perhaps some of the tutorials in Textbook would fit better on your Tips website.
I agree with the first part – the headers/footers could very well fit into Textbook. But should it? I am not sure Textbook is the right place for code snippets. What is in there now relating to installation and server setup is perfect. Tutorials and code tips I don’t think need to be in TXB, and yes, would be better placed in a dedicated site.
does it still make sense to leave the Howto forum open for tips that don’t belong in Textbook if such tips are all gathered on your Tips website. And are all posted tips in the Howto forum moved/copied to either Textbook or TXP-Tips or are some left behind in the Howto forum. In the latter case, users have to look in three locations (four, if we’re counting TXP.org, which also has a tips section, btw).
I think this opens up the discussion as to what the main TXP sites (resources, txp.com, textbook) should feature in terms of content. In my view, resources should become plugins.textpattern.com and feature only plugins. Any tips/tutorials that are there now should be moved to wherever makes most sense. I think you hit the nail on the head – what sh
txp.com has a very good FAQ section. Should this content not be moved to Textbook instead? Or – faq.textpattern.com. That is an actual example of duplicated content – what I have now on TXP Tips is new content.
With the new txp.com site coming, this is an opportunity to get things right for 2009 onwards. Most of the current resources tips/tutorials are quite old and from external websites. Textbook has been around for a long time and it does not have a lot of contributors – probably for a good reason.
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#35 2008-09-27 18:41:10
- masa
- Member
- From: North Wales, UK
- Registered: 2005-11-25
- Posts: 1,095
Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
First of all I want to say, that I greatly appreciate Jonathan’s efforts to put together a Textpattern advanced tips resource. I do however see the point raised by others not to scatter content.
jstubbs wrote:
txp.com has a very good FAQ section. Should this content not be moved to Textbook instead? Or – faq.textpattern.com. That is an actual example of duplicated content – what I have now on TXP Tips is new content.
As a beginner the FAQ was the resource I referred to more than anything and it certainly offers loads more than Textbook’s tutorials
IMHO it would be great if these two could be merged.
As far as I can tell, the FAQ and Textbook’s tutorials focus on what’s possible to do with the core while perhaps Txp Tips should focus on how to extend Textpattern with plugins, js-libraries etc.
The How Do I…? forum should just stay the way it is, as a place for people to ask questions, dish out ideas and (hopefully) come to a conclusion. Any interesting discoveries made there could then be added to either the FAQ or Txp Tips, depending on whether they can be achieved with the core or involve plugins etc.
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
Hi Martin,
I think you put it very well. I am all for merging the current sites, but I think rather than talking about how my new site could theoretically duplicate content, the focus should be on consolidating the various official TXP sites.
For me, the most important site while getting to know TXP was the FAQ pages, much like Martin. TextBook hardly existed for me. Now, I only use it to check the Tag list
Personally, I think this is what should happen (I do not wish to be presumptuous towards the developers, but since the topic has been raised I think its ok to say):
- FAQ and Textbook tutorials and how-to’s should be merged in docs.textpattern.com, or split into docs.textpattern.com and faq.textpattern.com
- Resources site should become plugins.textpattern.com and focus solely on plugins
- “How do I?” forum needs to stay put – its the best way to ask questions and get answers (and that is what is special about the TXP community)
Talk has concentrated on the duplication of content etc. Perhaps we should be talking instead about solutions that people like – this forum for example. We Love TXP is a great example of a site that works because it is easy and fulfills a niche task, besides being the best promotional event that has happened to TXP in the last couple of years. Hopefully TXP Tips will perform a similarly useful task – if it does not it will die a natural death and the tips gathered can be used somewhere else.
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#37 2008-09-27 19:43:42
- els
- Moderator
- From: The Netherlands
- Registered: 2004-06-06
- Posts: 7,458
Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
Martin and Jonathan: Ruud was talking about the How-tos and Examples forum, not ‘How do I…’ :) At the moment people are discussing whether or not to close that forum and move (part of) the topics posted there to Textbook. So I have been asking myself the same questions.
Apart from that, I think it’s a great idea to collect tips and snippets that don’t fit elsewhere (meaning: on one of the main sites) on TXP Tips. Still, I think the birth of TXP Tips should be taken into account when deciding about the How-tos forum.
Last edited by els (2008-09-27 19:45:17)
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
As Gocom points out: copyright maybe an issue, some people may prefer a link to their site rather than having their content reproduced.
Maybe txptips could be some sort of interface to get to other places?- I often find it hard to find what I need on the forum. If txptips could point out tutorials in the forum posts and have better categorization to get to the specifics then that would be great .
- It would require less time to maintain? As it currently is it seems very time consuming for one person to look out for snippets & transfer, maintain, request them…
- Disadvantages would be that it will not offer the content as polished or condensed as it is now and links might become broken of course.
masa wrote:
As far as I can tell, the FAQ and Textbook’s tutorials focus on what’s possible to do with the core while perhaps Txp Tips should focus on how to extend Textpattern with plugins, js-libraries etc.
I like that idea.
Isn’t the intention for it (FAQ and txptips) all be brought over to the docs.textpattern.com eventually? can’t it all have a place there?
TXPDream – A Textpattern Tag Library for Adobe Dreamweaver. (updated for 4.2.0) | jdw_if_ajax – Only serve certain parts of a page when requested with AJAX
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
JanDW wrote:
As Gocom points out: copyright maybe an issue, some people may prefer a link to their site rather than having their content reproduced.
Copyright on TXP Tips is retained by TXP Tips and the respective authors. I think there may be a misunderstanding here – there is no intention to reproduce content without permission.
Maybe txptips could be some sort of interface to get to other places?
I think it depends on the tip/tutorial. I could add a file download as part of the tip (on the side where it says “About this TXP Tip”) or a URL link if necessary. Whatever works.
I often find it hard to find what I need on the forum. If txptips could point out tutorials in the forum posts and have better categorization to get to the specifics then that would be great .
That’s the plan.
It would require less time to maintain? As it currently is it seems very time consuming for one person to look out for snippets & transfer, maintain, request them…
I will open a new thread and request permission from authors in advance. That way I don’t have to ask every time.
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
Posted here for contributions and authorisation for the publication of tips.
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#41 2008-09-28 13:31:38
- kevinpotts
- Member
- From: Ghost Coast
- Registered: 2004-12-07
- Posts: 370
Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
I think people get a little overworked over the idea of duplicating content. We have all lived with plugins being posted in textpattern.org and the forum for years. While I kind of made a stink about this awhile ago, I’ve come around 180 degrees on the point. It makes the chances of finding relevant content easier; some people are going to look at Textbook, others are going to look at TXP Tips. I think the critical part of all of this — which is something that textpattern.org does well — is provide contextual links to relevant info. For instance, if I submit an article to TXP Tips, I am probably going to want to link to the appropriate tag entries from the tag list, possible plugin solutions from the forum or textpattern.org, another related tutorial on an independent blog, etc. Authors have to be generous with outbound links so the community can follow up for more info.
Kevin
(graphicpush)
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
Good show, jstubbs!
Although I’m slightly left of center on the distribution/redundancy issue, I certainly have come to understand that in communities like this it’s ridiculous to think everyone is going to feed a single source or project. It’s like herding cats (that old apt metaphor), so don’t try and hold the cats back.
The ultimate user aim is to help people get stuff done, and Kevin is on the mark with the suggestion of working the contextual links. If each running cat provided a means to do that, we’d be doing the ultimate service to the end-user. Natural selection will work it out otherwise. Authors will tire of adding their tip (whatever) to multiple locations and settle on one preferred location instead (I see this now with plugins: forum threads versus .org versus the author’s own site). Not all authors will choose the same location. In the end one or two will dominate (like a high school click) until a new cat starts running to mix things up.
As for the contextual links, this can be done in TextBook using the mininav template for a given article/tip/whatever. In this case instead of using it for internal links, simply edit the header to “Related reading:” or “Reading elsewhere:” and add the external links to all the external sources on the same topic. Since it’s a template, it can be used to output that list in multiple TxB locations. That’s contextual links at it’s best, and soon as the new skin is in, TextBook will allow authors to do it easily. There’s also this nice “PDF Book extension” (see “A” List) forthcoming, which makes train reading easier too.
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Re: TXP Tips site goes live!
Hi Destry, thanks for the nice comments.
My idea here was not to replace the Textbook or the Resources examples. It was to create something that did not exist. As you say, time will tell what users want – the marketplace will decide. All I want really is to provide a repository of examples that are useful. Where the examples go – on TXP Tips or somewhere else – is not really relevant. Users need examples to work with, and this is what TXP Tips is all about.
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