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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
OK, I’ll be continuing with the Dokuwiki version of Textbook until such time as Destry makes an even better version with Mediawiki. It’s simple and easy and it’s almost ready to be put to good use. People have said it’s better than the existing one, so perhaps it can replace it even if only temporarily? Anyway there are things to do before that…
Oh, and if you think this is a waste of time because you’re going to go with Mediawiki anyway, it might be a while before that happens, and what we learn from this one will benefit the other one. Some of you might prefer my approach too, miracles happen all the time:-) I wrote a little bit in the textpattern architecture thread, and it seems quite clear there are two quite different approaches. I’m sticking with mine.
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(The simple Textbook is here in case you forgot.)
OK, so which namespaces should I use? For the headings and for the navigation at the top, I will use full words like they are now, but the namespaces, which will be seen in the breadcrumbs and URL, can be abbreviated maybe. What do you think? Perhaps intro, tutor, admin, devel, ref and tag? Or intro, tutorials, admin, development, ref and tag? Longer words have their usability problems even if they are better for meaning. And remember 30% of people don’t read English so won’t have a clue what they are, so their namespaces will be nonsense even though they are the best way of keeping within a language using them via breadcrumbs. At least the numbers have an internal logical order to them, so make some sense to non-English speakers. I also think it is easier for English speakers to scan a page with numbers there. It’s only microseconds, I know, but it takes more time to read a word than a number. English speakers would soon be using numbers to navigate. It’s not rocket science. From the way I get spoken to on this forum, I must be the least intelligent of all of you, and I learned the numbers in no time at all. The audience is intelligent! The numbers allow for expansion sideways too, should that be necessary in the future, eg, 303, 502, 503 etc. They are far easier to use of course when writing wiki articles with links to other articles. And they take up less space.
Mmm… I started off accepting we were going to get rid of the numbers but now I’ve talked myself into wanting to keep them again :-) Anyway, I’ll do what the community wants, even if the ‘community’ in this case might be four or five of you. So please let me know.
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Hmm… intro, guide (or howto), dev, ref (?), tag (which to me is part of a reference too)
Not sure about ‘intro’, especially because it isn’t really an introduction to all the other stuff, but more a set of essential things you need to know to work with TXP (if I understand correctly what you’re planning).
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Just waded through the entire thread in one sitting (more or less). Think I need to lie down now, but before I do I offer a small rambling thought train…
Thanks for efforts on all counts for making TextBook (in whatever form) more useful. Once a logical structure is up and this namespace thing finally sinks into my thick skull, I considered some content editing/creation assistance. But anyone who’s skimmed my plugin docs knows I am not capable of being a) terse or b) comprehensible, so perhaps raw content is best left to those with a better command of language :-)
Regarding structure I agree with ruud that labelling things advanced / intermediate / beginner is counter-intuitive. Too many times I’ve gone to the TextBook page with a specific question about a specific thing and been presented on the front page with a top-level choice and have to “just know” how complex my task is in advance of being able to solve it. To me, <txp:if_different /> and .htaccess rules are advanced but to others they are staple parts of site admin and therefore perhaps intermediate or even basic concepts.
Yes the content needs structure (I guess that’s what namespaces are about), yes the sections containing TXP naming conventions and tutorials should be structured to ease newcomers to ‘the TXP way’. And in that regard I love your logic Peter, your layout makes exceptional sense to me: Tags are just a click away if I want them (and multi-column yay!); if I need help with a particular admin tab: one click away; plugin info, how-to, glossary: all one click away from the front page. Brilliant. For people like me who very rarely use bookmarks (gotta keep the mind ticking over!) it’s excellent to be able to type the base URL and in one click be where I want to be to solve the problem I have. Excellent work.
BUT, TextBook is a user-editable reference manual not just a web site. At the moment it resembles the latter. If I want to edit something on a page, currently to do so is not obvious (at least to me). Perhaps I’ve missed something blatant in this morning brain fog — please correct me if I have. IMO, the means to make corrections to — or add — content needs to be side-by-side with the content itself. Destry knows this and has said so on a number of occasions. Between your content zen, a few-clicks-as-possible approach, fat-and-wide yet logical structure and Destry’s incredible know-how in the ways of the wiki, TextBook is gonna rock.
FWIW, I don’t give a goat’s hoof whether it’s MW or DW under the hood. As long as the system for editing content works and isn’t over-bearing on its users or admins, that’s all I care about. There should be one place — and one place only — for each hunk of content so we don’t get fragmented versions of the same content expressed in different ways, but there should be multiple ways to reach that content based on the different ways people think.
I’ve studied a bit of cognitive psychology in user interface design (ha ha, wouldn’t know it from my plugins!) which is why I love this web lark and despise content duplication; I firmly believe that multiple links expressed in different ways pointing to one resource is the best way for multiple people thinking in a multitude of different ways to find the same thing and become enlightened :-) When people can’t find something quickly but see a tantalising “create your own” link, the tendency might be to write something new instead of strengthen something that already exists. And if I ever see “click here” on a web site, I switch off as it conveys no information.
In summary: I love your simplistic content-centred direction Peter. And I’m totally looking forward to what Destry can fashion in terms of layout/skin and usability for content editors. I agree with maniqui’s world ; whatever form the wiki finally takes, between the two of you and the TXP community will rise greatness.
Last edited by Bloke (2008-08-09 08:44:04)
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Stef, thanks for the love and your usual humorous but insightful remarks. I think there is one thing you have missed – top left you see 3 little icons, click the middle one and you see the editor’s view – so it is a wiki after all! In one sense I’m glad you thought it was just like another website because that’s how I want it to be for those who come to read and learn (which are the vast majority), but I’m also disappointed that you didn’t find that icon although once found, I’m sure you won’t forget. Needs a rethink of those icons, methinks. Which will depend on the txp.com relaunch design, but perhaps Edit and Read buttons to replace the icon…
Re namespaces (just the dokuwiki terminology equivalent of txp sections really. They show in breadcrumbs and URL), I’m now inclined towards:
basic, howto, admin, dev, ref, tag
These are pretty close to what Jonathan suggested near the beginning of this thread, so should we stick with these and send Jonathan a virtual beer?
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
zero wrote:
I think there is one thing you have missed – top left you see 3 little icons, click the middle one and you see the editor’s view
Ahaaaa, knew I’d missed something. You’re right, now I know it’s there I won’t lose it again. But like you say, perhaps making it a tad more obvious for dummies like me might help… hehe, how about a How-To Edit Stuff In This Wiki article in section 101, perhaps explaining the namespace convention adopted and wiki syntax stuff for people that have never used one in anger :-)
Re the namespace names, they sound ok to me but I’m not a wiki heavyweight by any means. They’re descriptive enough without being too long and convey factually what they contain without being too subjective so they tick my boxes. If they stick that way, it’s Beer +1 from me.
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
jstubbs wrote:
I’d rather have a real beer :-)
Hehe, if I could guarantee the efficacy and integrity of all people in the postal chain from here to Barcelona I’d tip a Leffe in an envelope and send it to ya.
Mmmm beer by post. Just empty, chill and serve :-p
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
I’ve put a link in 101 and 201 to the relevant wiki page. That page will need updating when the final namespace decision is made. Also, when you actually do edit anything, a short paragraph always appears with links to Syntax and Playground, so it’s not a very daunting task. (Perhaps I’ll mention that in the main wiki page).
I’ve also made some more extra links from different sections to certain articles. If you see any more that are better mentioned in more than one place, please let us know.
wiki is also a namespace, btw. I haven’t given it prominence because it is only of interest to editors, but there’s a link to it on the front page for just in case. Perhaps, when the numbers are gone, I could do likewise with txp:tags, put a link under Reference but keep its namespace intact. And just for completeness here, there’s also another namespace, 1001, which is the bottom drawer to stuff things that don’t fit easily anywhere else. So if the numbers go, it will need a new name, perhaps ‘also’ or something…
Jonathan, a beer is on its way!
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
OK, I’ll be continuing with the Dokuwiki version of Textbook until such time as Destry makes an even better version with Mediawiki. It’s simple and easy and it’s almost ready to be put to good use. People have said it’s better than the existing one, so perhaps it can replace it even if only temporarily?
Whatever happens, let’s not create two textbooks that exist alongside each other. Keeping them in sync is a waste of time and energy.
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Yes, as I mentioned before Ruud, it is not my intention for this to be an additional Textbook. The existing one would be kept for a short while, but out of sight just for reference purposes, because there might be things on there that I missed or forgot. Then if this did happen, and then Destry’s took over, then this would be put out of sight for a while for the same reason, then binned.
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Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
It was a wrench but I’ve now dumped the 101, 201, etc. Is that cheering I hear?
The tags are finished and all the content is up to date. It works in the browsers I’ve used, but let me know if it breaks anywhere. I haven’t checked every page and every link because there’s so many of them, so if you come across anything weird, please let me know.
So, is it good enough now to be the Textbook, even if for just a month or two?
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