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#109 2008-08-14 10:23:34
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
- I cannot find any instance of an H2 that doesn’t have a lot of space above it.
- There has never been a solid bottom line around any code. Are you viewing through some developer toolbar thingie?
- Navigation within tag namespace – I’ll change this after other tag pages issues are sorted.
- H3 font looks fine in normal article context eg this. If you’re referring to use of h3 for tag examples, I can change it to H5 at the same time as I do what you suggest for:
- Showing attributes. Makes sense, would look better and be easier to follow. And I said I wasn’t going to do any more on tags…
- Attributes cross reference. Someone uses them
- Have I got this right? I make a page with a list of tags grouped by function. I make another page describing how to use tags, where to use them etc (ie the paragraphs above the present ‘tags for pages’, ‘tags for forms’ and ‘conditional tags’) and put this in basic (with extra links from tag pages).
- Tags in development. Are hard to find in present Textbook, perhaps for the reasons you give. So shall I just make them harder to find here so coders can use them/update them when they so wish. As I see it, they are just a pre-live page of no interest to anyone but coders.
- When to move. Whenever it’s most suitable. So I take it 4.0.7 won’t be out till at least after next week?
- Logo link and footer padding fixed.
- Language links and translations. Existing Textbook has only a few translations. I’ve copied all these over, afaik. When there is a translation (or an equivalent) for an English page the lang book is a darker brown – look at home page and look at the ‘books’ to see what I mean. I have put equivalents of home page, basic, howto, admin, dev and ref for the languages that have some translations, ie de, es, fr, it, hu, zh and zh-tw because it seems there must be an active translator for these languages who might want to translate the new pages too. However, if you look on the forum and the languages on there, there are many more that have contributors so that’s why I have put a ‘book’ on the shelf for those too.
- Now you say there’s unexpected results when clicking on lang links. What you should see is an equivalent page in that language. If there isn’t a page, then you get the message about the page not yet in existence and that you can create it by clicking the create this page button. Unexpected yes, but desirable also yes, imho. The missing page already has the pagename and namespace, so it is easy to create a translation of the page. The interface is also in their language. I hope this will encourage more translations. I don’t hold out great hopes but I think it makes it simpler to translate, so hopefully a few more will result from it.
- Re the ‘books’ themselves, if anyone would like to make them look more like books, please do so!
- I already put the link there just after you first mentioned it, unless you’re talking about a Spanish translation which I don’t know about.
- If you’d like to update the feed_link tag when this goes live, then please feel free to do so.
- What are your thoughts on the language links?
Last edited by zero (2008-08-14 10:30:15)
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#110 2008-08-14 10:52:44
- uli
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- From: Cologne
- Registered: 2006-08-15
- Posts: 4,313
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
ruud wrote:
Stuff I’d love to see removed:
- attribute cross reference… come on, does anyone wake up in the morning think “hmm, I want to use an attribute ‘sort’ today, let’s find a fun tag that supports it”
It’s perhaps not that ridiculous. This very morning e.g. jakob used it successfully to look for a tag with the “month” attribute. Why drop information we possess?
Last edited by uli (2008-08-14 10:53:56)
In bad weather I never leave home without wet_plugout, smd_where_used and adi_form_links
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#111 2008-08-14 17:09:49
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#112 2008-08-14 20:52:25
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
zero wrote:
I cannot find any instance of an H2 that doesn’t have a lot of space above it.
I found that changing the top-margin to 1.5em, combined with changing the bottom-border-color to #333 makes it easier to distinguish the chapters, because the line draws less attention (more stylish then actually separating two parts of text) and the H2 text has more distance from preceding text so it’s clear that it’s a new beginning. Before, the spacing was often the same as within a chapter of text.
There has never been a solid bottom line around any code. Are you viewing through some developer toolbar thingie?
Yep, that’s seems to be causing it, although disabling it doesn’t help and the solid line disappears when I actually USE that toolbar ;)
H3 font looks fine in normal article context eg this.. If you’re referring to use of h3 for tag examples, I can change it to H5 at the same time as I do what you suggest for
That page seems to use only H1, H2 and H4, not H3.
Tag examples was indeed where I noticed it.
Aren’t three levels of headings (H1, H2 and H3) enough for markup in TXB?
If I read the CSS correctly, H3 is currently 130%, H4 is 112% and H5 is 1.1em. H4 and H5 look really similar (1.1em = 110%?). If you change H3 to H5 for the examples, wouldn’t it be easier to just make H3 around 112% and use that instead of H4/H5 (for indexing by search engines too)?
Showing attributes. Makes sense, would look better and be easier to follow. And I said I wasn’t going to do any more on tags…
If you plan on doing this and it’s a manual task (which looks like a LOT of work). Perhaps do one page and how that turns out visually and functionally (!), tuning style and markup to perfection so others can lend a hand.
Have I got this right? I make a page with a list of tags grouped by function. I make another page describing how to use tags, where to use them etc (ie the paragraphs above the present ‘tags for pages’, ‘tags for forms’ and ‘conditional tags’) and put this in basic (with extra links from tag pages).
Very close to what I had in mind.
Grouping all knowledge about general tag syntax on one page:
http://01010.org/textbook/doku.php/basic/using-tags
using-tags => tag-syntax?
Single tag => self-closing tag?
Nesting tags is too focussed on conditional tags. This applies to all container tags, so nesting can be a H2, like the other chapters on that page.
This page will probably get a bit larger once 4.0.7 is released (more features, though nesting is simpler)
http://01010.org/textbook/doku.php/tag/tags-by-function
tags-by-function => by-function? (to avoid the duplication of ‘tag’ in breadcrumbs and URL)
The distinction made between conditional, page, form tags is artificial. Page tags and conditional tags can be used everywhere. Some form tags can be used in page/templates (article tags) and with the container facility added to list tags in 4.0.7 all tags can be used in page/templates.
I’d group by article tags (including article, article_custom, recent_articles and title, body etc and related conditionals), comment tags, link tags, files tags, navigation tags, header tags, search tags, feed tags (though not necessarily in that order). For each of those groups, first the main ones (article, article_custom), then indented (2nd level list) tags that can be used within the context of the main ones (body, title, which should be inside article/article_custom etc).
This could mean listing (a few) tags twice if they can be used in a different context (and with context-dependent behaviour), but I’m guessing that only helps the user understand it’s function.
Tags in development. Are hard to find in present Textbook, perhaps for the reasons you give. So shall I just make them harder to find here so coders can use them/update them when they so wish. As I see it, they are just a pre-live page of no interest to anyone but coders.
Yes. I think it’s mostly useful for pre-live building of new tag pages and pre-release testers, although I suspect most people testing and running SVN have enough knowledge to just follow changelogs and read the code to see what a tag can/cannot do. Like the attribute-cross reference (which main use I think is to keep attribute naming consistent), it’s something very few users will need or use. Too much info just confuses users and it’s yet another thing to keep up-to-date. It’s something that falls somewhere in between development and reference.
When to move. Whenever it’s most suitable. So I take it 4.0.7 won’t be out till at least after next week?
A release in august seems unlikely, but release candidate…
Last edited by ruud (2008-08-14 20:56:50)
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#113 2008-08-15 12:49:14
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
- I’ve changed top margins of hx to 1.5em like you suggest, Ruud. Also headings go like this now: h1, h2 = 1.6em, h3 = 1.4em, h4 = 1.2em, h5 = 1em. All headings are needed so now they decrease more clearly. You said #333 for border on h2 but it was just as prominent as the brown, so I made it #ccc. Perhaps that’s what you meant? Anyway, the result is that there is now acres of space (name of a great LP by the way:) Thanks for persisting, you finally got through! It works well, I think. I always thought I was allowing plenty of whitespace but you know what thought did…
- I will work more on Tags by Function and Using Tags later.
- What to put in value? For actual values, should I leave them underlined (or perhaps italic or bold)? For when there is not an obvious value, eg when there is a choice of integer, should I leave them plain text? When there is no obvious value, what should I write in there, eg is ‘integer’ any good or is there something better. I’ve put one or two things in there as suggestions but we need to get this agreed and correct.
- h4 for Attributes or h3?
- Should description go first of the three?
- Some values are capitalized. Are they correct?
- Thoughts now that some tag articles have become very long pages
- All other suggestions.
It is going to take a lot of work doing these one by one, so it’s got to be right before I proceed. Please remember it is a pain going through well over 100 articles, so this really is my last work I’m doing on tags. But I’m happy to do it this time so we can get a half-decent Textbook together between us. Thanks everyone for all the input so far – it’s great to be part of this real community project.
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#114 2008-08-15 13:36:35
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Peter, can I get a login so I can do some attribute experimentation on the recent_articles page?
Yes, you read my mind. I did mean #ccc instead of #333 :)
Last edited by ruud (2008-08-15 13:38:40)
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#115 2008-08-17 15:29:18
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
How do you like Tag Syntax and Tags by function now?
I don’t know how you’re going on with your experiments, Ruud, but I’ve now made article custom into the way I think the tag articles should look. Any changes needed? (All suggestions welcome, not just Ruud’s)
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#116 2008-08-17 16:32:36
- uli
- Moderator
- From: Cologne
- Registered: 2006-08-15
- Posts: 4,313
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
- When I see a heading like “Main Article Tags used mostly in page” with a subhead of “Tags often used in default article form” I’m more confused than enlightened. I see that that “mostly” and “often” don’t exclude each other, but I think this phrasing doesn’t serve an unambiguity TXB should have. I’d expect the subhead
li class="level2"to be the same level as “Main Article Tags …”: anh3(see also: file tags, search tags). - The pipe character between
<txp:site_name /> | <txp:site_slogan />would tell me these tags are mutually exclusive. - The classification of “Description, Value, Default” on the article(_custom) tag pages is very clear. Well done! (Lot of work, I think. Thank you!!)
- Textpattern Tag Syntax and Usage: curly quotes in the first code block.
- The tocdot2.gif you use for the TOCs is a middot, not a bullet (too small, probably a remainder of the much smaller font size formerly used here), and sticks too close to the text. Minor issue, but annoys the hell out of me ;)
Edit: Just came back from weekend and only read your last post, Peter. Hope I find the time to answer some of your questions above.
Last edited by uli (2008-08-17 16:39:41)
In bad weather I never leave home without wet_plugout, smd_where_used and adi_form_links
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#117 2008-08-17 18:34:45
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
More good suggestions, Uli. Thanks!
- The default article form tags were meant to show as subsidiary of txp:article tags. I’ve altered things but still kept a hierarchy. Any more thoughts on that?
- pipe removed
- Ruud’s suggestion. Thanks, Ruud!
- Well done for spotting those curly quotes. I’ll keep an eye out for more.
- No bullets needed, so removed
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#118 2008-08-17 20:02:56
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
handy dandy bookmarklet:
javascript:q=prompt('TXP%20Tag?%20','');location.href='http://01010.org/textbook/doku.php/tag/'+q;
Click it in your fav bar and type in a tag. Just replace the TLD when this get’s moved.
Last edited by mrdale (2008-08-17 20:04:13)
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#119 2008-08-17 21:00:26
Re: [wiki] A New Textbook
Is something broken? I can’t get anything but the entry page to display.
[had to work all weekend, I’ll have a look tomorrow, plenty free time then]
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#120 2008-08-17 21:09:21
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