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#13 2008-06-07 18:07:18

els
Moderator
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2004-06-06
Posts: 7,458

Re: Marketing TXP

iblastoff wrote:

1) activity: … too bad the main site doesn’t tell you any of this!

Might it be a good idea to have excerpts (not just titles) of the latest weblog entries on the main page, and a bit more pronounced?

2) txp’s default admin interface … i can easily see why some people would avoid txp just for this reason.

One of the consequenses of a better marketing strategy for TXP will no doubt be that potential users will be well enough informed about TXP itself to prevent them walking away “just because they don’t like the admin interface”. (Which BTW is a very dumb reason to walk away from anything…)

3) tutorials? textbook. don’t even get me started.

People are still working hard on TextBook and other documentation. There will be a time when it is near perfect :) And as long as it is not, newcomers are getting all kinds of directions to find their way through the existing documentation from the forums. Which BTW is also one of TXP’s great strengths that could do with a bit more emphasis on the main site: the forums!

Last edited by els (2008-06-07 18:08:54)

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#14 2008-06-08 12:34:55

ruud
Developer Emeritus
From: a galaxy far far away
Registered: 2006-06-04
Posts: 5,068
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

hcgtv wrote:

We’ve had a change of heart, so give back SVN access to Manfre and I’ll become the admin of the forum and wiki again ;)

Manfre never had SVN access. There’s nothing to give back.

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#15 2008-06-08 12:48:51

keith
Member
From: Blyth, Northumberland, England
Registered: 2004-12-08
Posts: 199
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

iblastoff wrote:

2) txp’s default admin interface … i can easily see why some people would avoid txp just for this reason.

I’ve never seen the Admin interface as a problem, myself: it isn’t exactly pretty, but it’s logical, functional and easy to use (IMHO) – it is what it is and does the job.

At work I am a publisher on one of the largest intranets in the world (the UK’s Department for Work and Pensions – DWP – intranet), and we have to use Stellent WCMS.

Now that’s a CMS with an unpleasant-to-use admin section…


Keith
Blyth, Northumberland, England
Capture The Moment

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#16 2008-06-08 14:05:03

iblastoff
Plugin Author
From: Toronto
Registered: 2006-06-11
Posts: 1,197
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

zero wrote:

bq. keith wrote:

Or you embrace Txp’s sophistication and “sell” it on its real strength, which (IMHO) is that unlike pretty much any other blog/CMS out there, you can do anything with Txp: pretty much any combination of look, feel and functionality is achievable in Txp with a bit of work and the right tags and plugins, and personally I love it for that.

iblastoff wrote:

ehh i dunno. that argument might have held some weight several years ago, but with the influx of modern updated cms’s these days, it seems highly unlikely that theres something in TXP that i could not do using EE, modx, or even wordpress now.

zero wrote:

I doubt the last sentence but, for the sake of argument, let’s say maybe. Whatever you say though about other systems, Keith’s points about TxP’s strengths are true and are a big plus that can be embraced and “sold”.

As for the negatives, the relevant people know about those and they are being addressed one way or another. I hadn’t heard of ‘tutorials like on how to convert a regular xhtml/css site to its cms counterpart’ being mentioned before but it’s a good idea, although pro web designers probably can figure it out quite easily which is perhaps why it hasn’t been done.

sure if you can give me an example of what can be done in TXP that i couldn’t do in the CMS’s i mentioned i’d be glad to retract my statement. i’m just saying “txp can do anything” really doesn’t count for much these days.

being a ‘pro web designer’ has nothing to do with learning the ins and outs of a complex cms. you could be writing html/css for centuries and still not understand how txp:if_different works. each cms is obviously different in their setup and i’m quite sure most people spent at least several months if not more trying to understand textpattern.

not trying to diminish txp’s worth or anything as its still my main cms i use. i think one of txp’s strengths its its templating style. you just write your own html and then throw in xhtml-styled textpattern tags while having fun figuring out some correct if/else logic for whatever functionality you need. its pretty satisfying to write some simple html/css + simple programming and get some amazing results. of course this also applies to modx, EE, etc etc so i don’t know if it truly counts as a strength on txp’s part.

so far i think the best website thats indirectly doing TXP’s marketing is welovetxp.com. people want to know AND see what exactly TXP can do.

Last edited by iblastoff (2008-06-08 14:41:37)

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#17 2008-06-08 16:11:20

hcgtv
Plugin Author
From: Key Largo, Florida
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,722
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

ruud wrote:

Manfre never had SVN access. There’s nothing to give back.

Right, so no energies were split.

In actuality, the way TxP is marketed, it lends itself to being packaged up by others. I can take the core, throw a nice template on it, do up the admin with a theme, throw in some plugins and voila, TxBlog.

A good analogy is Debian, their website is spartan, the biggest support forum isn’t even theirs and frequented by a few of us. Now take Ubuntu, flashy site and their support forum is teaming with people all the time. Yet, Ubuntu is just a repackaging of Debian Sid with better marketing.

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#18 2008-06-08 18:09:08

beztak
Member
From: Czech Republic
Registered: 2005-07-21
Posts: 184
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

I do not think it is a good idea to split textpattern to CMS and blog. It’s all just about setup and used plugins. The whole effort should concentrate on the new admin’s design (I’m working on), a new design of front-end after the Textpattern’s installation and simple and clear instructions who to do this or that. I admire work of developers and all who help Textpattern. I also would like to contribute because Textpattern has given me a lot. I use TXP on tens of web sites and see its marketing weaknesses, that me as TXP experienced users do not worry, but for newbies there is a few large obstacle.

In fact I plan to create a package with textpattern, which will have fresh look appearance in admin and in front-end, including all necessary plugins. At this time I’m working with my wife on the concept of this project and considering which way we will take.

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#19 2008-06-08 18:25:00

keith
Member
From: Blyth, Northumberland, England
Registered: 2004-12-08
Posts: 199
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

iblastoff wrote:

sure if you can give me an example of what can be done in TXP that i couldn’t do in the CMS’s i mentioned i’d be glad to retract my statement. i’m just saying “txp can do anything” really doesn’t count for much these days.

Technically that’s probably true and perhaps I could have made my point differently.

Like most of us I imagine, I’ve also dabbled with Phpnuke, Geeklog, E107, Etomite, Wordpress, B2, Joomla, Website Baker, Typo3 and more.

If you Google “Powered by xxxxxxxxx” you’ll find many example sites for any of those CMS and blogs – and the vast majority of those you find look, feel and function like a Phpnuke site, or a Wordpress site, or a Joomla site or a Geeklog site.

But you see very few Txp sites where you instantly go “that looks like Textpattern to me…

Does it mean much? Dunno really: but the point is, that lack of someone else’s “branding” appeals to me.

Yes, you can do lots of stuff with those other scripts, but most don’t: but Txp seems to encourage its users to push the boundaries of what’s achievable. That has to be “spinnable” into something worthwhile…

Last edited by keith (2008-06-08 18:25:55)


Keith
Blyth, Northumberland, England
Capture The Moment

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#20 2008-06-09 11:11:14

wet
Developer Emeritus
From: Schoerfling, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,275
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

Like WordPress, TextPattern looked like another well-crafted blog publishing system. […] The whole software package is considerably smaller than Wordpress […] but TextPattern just can’t seem to compete with Wordpress when it comes to community and extendability.

Word! (emphasis mine) – and then WordPress users moan that WP devs never show up in their forum…

Though two years free from the Wordpress loop and the oftentimes furniture throwing inducing complexity of its template tags may have strengthened my personal avowal to steer clear of even uttering the damn thing’s name ever again, Textpattern by comparison is the wizened professor who helps you learn everything you need to know, while doing 90% of your homework.

Yet another word! I feel better now…

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#21 2008-06-09 11:31:48

ruud
Developer Emeritus
From: a galaxy far far away
Registered: 2006-06-04
Posts: 5,068
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

TXP scores 1 point on extendability versus 3 for Wordpress? And both scale the same way?

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#22 2008-06-09 11:35:19

wet
Developer Emeritus
From: Schoerfling, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,275
Website

Re: Marketing TXP

you’re nitpicking ;-)

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#23 2008-06-09 11:57:00

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 10,793
Website GitHub

Re: Marketing TXP

Sheesh, RoR has a learning curve of 2? (with 3 being easiest). Perhaps if one is a cyborg…

From my experience it should be more like -50. But we digress.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

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#24 2008-06-09 12:31:29

uli
Moderator
From: Cologne
Registered: 2006-08-15
Posts: 4,284

Re: Marketing TXP

Much of the points TXP didn’t get in the comparison table on liftstudios.ca were not given because TXP would employ plugins for these. If ied_hide_in_admin | sed_section_fields were known to liftstudios, it’d gathered some more points for permissions; session management will become possible with smd_vars; mcw/hcg_templates makes themability peanuts compared to onboard-methods, …

So I think it’s necessary to stress TXP’s slimness and the positive consequences implied (“taylor-made” solutions), plus open the communicated spectrum to the plugins available: TXP is capable of so much more than commonly assumed, I fear restricting it’s communication to just the core code will be disadvantageous to its distribution.


In bad weather I never leave home without wet_plugout, smd_where_used and adi_form_links

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