TxP.com home page

zero · 2008-09-30 14:38:34

3 to 1!

Masa, ruud, do you mean that even with only 4 or 5 items per audience showing and with only one slide at a time showing that there is still too much content? If so why not show Matthew your own example wireframe?

Last edited by zero (2008-09-30 14:39:40)

maniqui · 2008-09-30 15:26:40

zero wrote:

I mentioned once or twice before that I thought the extra ‘Reasons’ content should be accessible with dropdowns exactly like the TXP Network Links at the top of this forum page. But I was too lazy before to indicate that on the image so now I’ve changed it a bit to give a slightly more accurate idea. (You’ll need to refresh)

I would leave the fancy javascript just for the sliders (on promospace) and maybe for the quotes (if there are many quotes).
Using a dropdown just for the sake of showing a few more bulleted features for each audiencie, seems overkilling. It also brings the problem of a column growing and pushing other content to the bottom, while the other columns remain at the same height. Not too nice. And absolute positioning (like the Txp Network Links) the dropdown over the content below (the quotes, or the footer) would create some visual cluttering that won’t be nice.

So, on each audience box, I suggest to add a “read more” and linking to deeper content.
People will be taken to a inner page where all the highlighted features for that particular audience will be better explained.

zero · 2008-09-30 16:08:17

OK, I seem to be the only one pursuing the dropdowns so I’ve changed it. But I don’t think those features are quite as convincing like that, and not as good for SEO, and mean the visitor has to leave the page, and I don’t see why this will reduce visual cluttering that a pro web designer like Matthew can’t already reduce with the full list etc, etc… So if someone can now edit each list to make it more convincing, please do so. Or perhaps now we’ll have to change the whole ‘Reasons’ section?

masa · 2008-10-01 00:24:41

zero wrote:

Masa, ruud, do you mean that even with only 4 or 5 items per audience showing and with only one slide at a time showing that there is still too much content?

I’m not too fond of these scrolly things on a front page generally, but it certainly depends on the implementation.

If so why not show Matthew your own example wireframe?

I like to give it a shot during the weekend, although I doubt it would be to everyone’s taste.
As a graphic designer I prefer a simplistic, visually strong approach, but I realise that this might not be suitable for all audiences.

Bloke · 2008-10-01 08:10:27

zero wrote:

But I don’t think those features are quite as convincing like that, and not as good for SEO, and mean the visitor has to leave the page

What happened to the concept of just picking 3 or 4 random ones from each list on page load, and having a “read more…” like maniqui says to list them all on an inner page with a short paragraph about each one? Did I miss the post where this idea was rejected? (the good old Red Giant site does this if you refresh a few times, albeit they display the same shortlist of reasons for each item but randomly choose which set of news items to feature).

In terms of SEO, randomly picking a few means the Googlebot might well think the content changes often enough to warrant coming back to index the page more often, thus finding more reasons to try Textpattern than it would with a full list each time. Maybe?

zero · 2008-10-01 09:29:14

Martin, I’m not fond of those scrolly things on the front page either.

When I said why not show Matthew your own example wireframe, I meant with the purpose of showing what content elements you think there should be, as opposed to how I have portrayed the content elements in the image I posted. It’s not hard to cut and paste from Matthew’s image to make a new one, and is perhaps the clearest way to show each other and Matthew what we understand the content elements should be.

Stef, I think the random idea was replaced by targeting the 3 audiences instead. Perhaps random is better. Perhaps not. I think all the latest discussions are all very debatable and uncertain and again I feel we need the advice of a pro copywriter. From her experience she should know what will work and what will not, whereas our experience is a lot more limited I think.

Perhaps someone can help me pose some good questions that we can put to her, so we don’t waste her or our time any more than is necessary? How about these to start?

What is the best – Reasons to Try Textpattern, Reasons to Use Textpattern, Reasons Why We Love Textpattern or something else?
What is the best way to present these reasons – 4 random ones for each audience, 4 set ones for each audience, select a few that target all audiences or something else?
Can you write some convincing reasons for us?
Is the Reasons section OK or should there be something else?
How much text should there be on the front page considering that TXP is a simple, elegant, easy-to-use cms?

Destry · 2008-10-01 16:27:00

masa wrote:

I like to give it a shot during the weekend, although I doubt it would be to everyone’s taste.

I’d like to see it, masa. What the heck, and don’t stop with a wireframe, give it the gloss. :)

I’m sure we all respect Matthieu’s position here. Likewise, I’m sure Matthieu wouldn’t mind if others (besides the boisterous few) threw into the pot. I think one problem all along has been too much debating about abstraction. A few more solid examples, even if to say – yeah, that’s it, or no, that’s not it wouldn’t hurt anything.

zero wrote:

Perhaps someone can help me pose some good questions that we can put to her, so we don’t waste her or our time any more than is necessary?

Bad idea! If the pro shows up, take a backseat and say thank you when she’s done.

Gocom · 2008-10-01 17:28:48

Destry wrote:

Bad idea! If the pro shows up, take a backseat and say thank you when she’s done.

Yep, she just would do it with out “others”, non-pros telling what to do. She can use content we have already generated, but professionals always do things, not by noob’s ordering and not by telling what others should do, but by just doing it. Most pros even hate constant advicing and doing exactly things like ordered, with out using own skills.

What have learned about those horrible unprofessional commercials that fill our commercial breaks with crap? Don’t let other area’s pros deside, but make their wishes and goals come true.

And btw, the homepage has too much content: a new visitor won’t read a novel, new visitor always looks for candy, useablity, excitement, and content that is easy to follow and fast to understand. “O, this is a CMS. And apparently it’s a CMS that I might try. Downloading…”.

Last edited by Gocom (2008-10-01 17:30:52)

zero · 2008-10-01 18:18:54

Destry, Gocom. Your comments are unfortunately typical of many others in this and other threads. Now before you react to that sentence, please note I am not trying to get at you. I am simply pointing something out I think you and others should think about. Similar things have happened before and possibly double the length of threads because they necessitate unnecessary posts to clarify matters (or the alternative is just to shrug and say forget it, they don’t listen anyway, thus allowing the misjudged statement to go unchallenged). Now please take a deep breath and read on calmly.

You both are interpreting my request as something else. If you read my comment again, you will see I am asking if anyone would like to help me ask for her advice in such a way as to not waste her time. There is nothing in my comment ordering anybody to do anything or suggesting I want to give my advice to her, nothing at all. It is quite the opposite – I can see that our expertise in copywriting is limited. We’ve done our best, we all have our different ideas and opinions, but at the end of the day lots of stuff is debatable and we are uncertain of the way forward. It is holding up Matthew and the whole redesign.

So that’s why I am asking is there a way we can make life easier for this pro so she can come in and help. Note that Neko has contact with her and asked what we wanted from her here and also note I was the only one to answer. I mean come on folks, there’s someone offering to help us so let’s do it! If nobody else is going to respond, it’s going to default to my view of things that she is going to see. Are you really happy to let that happen?

Please note also that I suggested we get a pro copywriter back in May here and here. so it’s not as if I am trying to order anybody about or force any of my ideas on anybody. I am more than happy to accept others ideas if they are better than mine or if the majority want them because I know my ideas are limited. However, because none of us are pro copywriters, I reserve the right to challenge ideas of others if I don’t agree, just as I accept you have the right to challenge any of my ideas. But when I can see none of us is getting very far, then I totally accept the advice of a professional with far more experience.

Now here’s a separate question: is the amount of wording on the home page up to the copywriter or the designer or the information architect or who? Should we let Matthew make the decision about how much content, or the copywriter? Or will they sort that out between them?

maniqui · 2008-10-01 20:03:28

I agree with zero: it’s not a matter of waiting till she (or any other pro copywriter) comes up with something. A copywriter probably needs to know some initial ideas/requests from his customer (in this case, from us, or those who are involved in this project).
Although I don’t know exactly how the copywriting process is developed, the copywriter will probably come back to us during the process to show us his/her ideas and have some feedback from us.
That’s what a pro does.

It’s like in web design/development. You (as a designer/developer) have to get in touch and request some initial and basic information to start working on a project. Then, during the project, you don’t disappear until you finished. You go through some phases where you display what you have done and gather some feedback.

re: the homepage content. Yes, it’s getting a little cluttered, imho. I insist on the idea of:

a first row with:
- the elevator pitch:an intro taking up one column, maybe linking keywords to corresponding inner pages
- the promo space: slides + images/text + tabs —optional—) taking up the space of two columns
a second row: three columns, targeting the three main audiencies. Short list of (random) features _linking to deeper content. No JS nor fanciness.
- for web publishers
- for web designers
- for web developers
a third row: one large column (maybe a tabbed interface?) with:
- showcase?
- quotes?
- info about support channels?
- some random faqs or “did you know…?”

Last edited by maniqui (2008-10-01 20:22:06)

Bloke · 2008-10-01 20:09:09

maniqui wrote:

re: the homepage content. Yes, it’s getting a little cluttered, imho. I insist on… <snip>

+1 from me.

Is there a 2nd DB we can get to on the .com server and start putting this content together while awaiting the final design? It might help focus the volume of content a bit. Or is someone else going to host it and then MySQL dump the database to the live site when it’s done? What’s the best practice/path of least resistance here? I’ve never done an offline -> online transition before (I do all mine on live sites in dummy sections, like a chump!)

Last edited by Bloke (2008-10-01 20:10:12)

Destry · 2008-10-02 08:53:06

Bloke wrote:

Is there a 2nd DB we can get to on the .com server and start putting this content together while awaiting the final design? It might help focus the volume of content a bit.

+1, page 6, post 54, point #3.

zero wrote:

is the amount of wording on the home page up to the copywriter or the designer or the information architect or who? Should we let Matthew make the decision about how much content, or the copywriter? Or will they sort that out between them?

I know who it’s not up to. :)

And I know who it is up to — the site owner! Sadly, the sight owner’s decision on things has been sorely lacking in all of this and that’s exactly why this debacle continues. (A similar clarification was made by the person in question about another site not long ago, but I’m not supposed to point those things out. :) )

Jenny, if you’re reading, do us all a favor. Ignore the buffoonery taking place in this 32-page comedy (tragedy?) and email wet directly. You guys work out the words backstage (as client and provider), and let the horse committee know what you have decided when it’s done. I even think Matthieu should be working with wet privately too. Let the pros make the owner own up, and this project will finally get done.

Lighten up, I’m only half serious, but that half is pretty serious.

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#301 2008-09-30 14:38:34

Re: TxP.com home page

#302 2008-09-30 15:26:40

Re: TxP.com home page

#303 2008-09-30 16:08:17

Re: TxP.com home page

#304 2008-10-01 00:24:41

Re: TxP.com home page

#305 2008-10-01 08:10:27

Re: TxP.com home page

#306 2008-10-01 09:29:14

Re: TxP.com home page

#307 2008-10-01 16:27:00

Re: TxP.com home page

#308 2008-10-01 17:28:48

Re: TxP.com home page

#309 2008-10-01 18:18:54

Re: TxP.com home page

#310 2008-10-01 20:03:28

Re: TxP.com home page

#311 2008-10-01 20:09:09

Re: TxP.com home page

#312 2008-10-02 08:53:06

Re: TxP.com home page

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