Blog platforms design critique

jstubbs · 2008-05-12 16:45:55

So – what about having some forum members send in some design mockups for a new TXP homepage – assuming the developers are willing?

thebombsite · 2008-05-12 17:36:15

I think that what should be considered most is one of the more important points that the article makes, which is that the front-page is just way too busy. I see the need for the first main block “What is it?” but the blocks after that could be reduced to a list of links to smaller individual articles. Further, the first 2 blocks in the right sidebar could be turned into individual articles containing the listings and also be reduced to links. Whether they stay in the sidebar or get moved into the new link-listing in the main content area is something to look at. With those 2 columns reduced some of the content in the left sidebar could be moved across to the right to equal out the lengths a bit resulting in a much shorter front-page.

As far as the text itself is concerned I think it is pretty self-explanatory and the idea that the site is aimed at the more technically-minded might be laid at the feet of the “stark” theme though I think the changes I mention above might reduce that perception somewhat. Having said that, the site design is based on the default supplied templates and CSS and I feel that this it is a good connection which shouldn’t be broken just because some think that the site isn’t “pretty”. If the template-side of the site design is to be changed then the changes should be carried over into the download default template to maintain that connection but whatever changes a made, the design should remain simple.

I agree that the download link needs projecting better. Maybe an image link?

zero · 2008-05-12 18:03:39

jstubbs wrote:

So – what about having some forum members send in some design mockups for a new TXP homepage – assuming the developers are willing?

I like the idea but it also frightens me a bit. I see so many ‘designs’ that look great at first glance but then seem to fit the content in as an afterthought. That’s why I’ve been emphasising content first. But I do agree with Sven that it should all be part of one process and I would hope any design mockups would include real content that the forum member thinks would be good for Textpattern. Sorry if I sound like I’m knocking designers on the forum. To be honest, there are a few I don’t rate at all but I rate this forum and most of its users highly so I’m with Yiannis and Jonathan on some sort of friendly competition.

Perhaps there could be a first round so anyone can contribute. Even if we know we’re not great designers there will probably be some good things in all entries that might strike a chord (such as Stuart’s). Then after discussion everyone could submit their super-duper final design.

jstubbs · 2008-05-12 18:17:11

If the devs are not comfortable with a competition, then I guess people could post design mockups instead. Then if it looks good (even if its just a shuffling of content with the default TXP design) the devs could decide what to do next.

colak · 2008-05-12 18:20:02

jstubbs wrote:

So – what about having some forum members send in some design mockups for a new TXP homepage – assuming the developers are willing?

zero wrote:

I like the idea but it also frightens me a bit. I see so many ‘designs’ that look great at first glance but then seem to fit the content in as an afterthought. That’s why I’ve been emphasising content first. But I do agree with Sven that it should all be part of one process and I would hope any design mockups would include real content that the forum member thinks would be good for Textpattern. Sorry if I sound like I’m knocking designers on the forum. To be honest, there are a few I don’t rate at all but I rate this forum and most of its users highly so I’m with Yiannis and Jonathan on some sort of friendly competition.

Perhaps there could be a first round so anyone can contribute. Even if we know we’re not great designers there will probably be some good things in all entries that might strike a chord (such as Stuart’s). Then after discussion everyone could submit their super-duper final design.

Then there should be a system of elimination for the second round, maybe one of the rating plugins will come handy. Recently rhizome had a competition for new media art. their voting process seems very appropriate.

Last edited by colak (2008-05-12 18:25:03)

wet · 2008-05-12 18:32:06

Good points here, I think. Admittedly, I myself got hooked onto Textpattern in those ancient times by the verbiage of the home page. But this was before web two oh, so we’d likely have to deal with different audience expectations now.

My very personal random thoughts on this topic:

For a possible relaunch process for textpattern.com, I’d rather see a (significant) portion of the existing site fused into a new visual and architectural concept as a starting point for a complete relaunch than a sole “beauty contest” with a few mockups thrown into the arena.
I am aware that many capable designers are usually not very eager to participate in a contest of any kind as large clients have abused that to an extent. I personally do not like the idea of a contest, as it feels somehow untextpatternish.
We are not in a position (nor are we inclined to) spend any monies on this – as we simply have none. All we can offer is “publicity” to for anyone who would contribute persistent results.
A possible time frame would extend roughly beyond the 4.0.7 release during summer / autumn 2008.
I do not want to look textpattern.com like WP.org or EE.com with gradients, huge font sizes, allegoric icons.
We are the Textpattern community aiming at designers and web builders, no startup/VC-funded company – this should transfer to the visuals and copy.

Slaktad · 2008-05-12 19:05:40

colak wrote:

Maybe a competition should be launched for the redesign of the textpattern site. Since the software is open source then the competition should not offer any $$$ but an acknowledgment of the designer somewhere in the pages… Just an idea…

I think that’s a good idea. I would probably sign up for it.

Last edited by Slaktad (2008-05-12 19:06:39)

zero · 2008-05-12 21:02:48

I believe Textpattern is great because of the great people in its community. Helping, inspiring and talking to each other must influence the devs and the great code they produce which in turn causes more community feedback and growth. So how can we get some of these great people, such as those featured on TXPQ, involved in the txp design? How about this?

First stage: Invite everyone to submit their idea. This might be a fully designed web page, a photo of a pencil sketch or a few words explaining what should and should not be on the home page. I would hope that this will encourage the best designers (who are also the busiest designers no doubt) to donate their input. Everyone’s submission should be public so there can be cooperation, which is the next stage. All entrants to the first stage are winners and will be featured on a special txp.com page and qualify for the final prize which is the very prestigious recognition of their contribution to the final txp.com design.

Second stage: Open and honest discussion of the first stage ideas. Then cooperation with the devs in extracting the best ideas and coming to a consensus agreement about the criteria that must be included in the main design (including content and architecture) of the home page. By cooperation I include trying to keep on topic, trying to be concise, and of course not getting rude and personal.

Third stage: Depends on the second stage. The second stage might not be achievable. I have seen total agreement reached by a group of 30 people when we all agreed not to say anything unless we really thought it was definitely beneficial, but with a large community I realise this might well not be possible. However, striving to achieve a consensus will lead to something and with this community I think it will be something good. For example, it might be a competition to create a design that fulfils all the criteria agreed upon in the second stage. But I don’t want to impose such a limitation now, and I think it’s best to let the third stage grow out of the second stage.

Does that help?

masa · 2008-05-12 21:22:06

I agree with the author’s comment about the simple and effective branding of the Txp site by the use of the colour yellow. I think that should be preserved and also extended to for instance Txp Resources to unify the look of all related sites. No offense, but at the moment Txp Resources looks more like a sub division of Wordpress.

He’s also right regarding the information overload.

What I would like to see in addition on the front page…

1) See What Others Have Done With Txp

It would be great to have a small and diverse collection of well-designed Txp sites as a thumbnail collection. If I were to decide whether Txp is suitable for my needs, I’d want to see some samples up front.

I came across Txp through Jon Hicks’ site
I was immediately impressed and thought, if Txp can do THAT, I’ll be able to make it work for me, too.

2) What Do You Want To Do With Txp? Find The Answers Here…

Recently a colleague complained about the lack of proper documentation on the various CMSes. While I agree in general, I think the Txp site has an excellent FAQ and Common “How Do I?” questions. Initially I spent a lot of time reading through these resources and found 95% of my questions answered there and I still refer to them regularly – brilliant!

None of the other CMSes I looked at provided brief, task-based tips like the Common “How Do I?” questions – these tips deserve prominent placement.

3) Minimalistic And Efficient Interface

For me this is one of Txp’s greatest strengths. The tabs are laid out in a two-level hierarchy at the very top, clearly labelled, and below the respective content is being displayed.

Again none of the other CMSes I checked out provided a separation as clear as Txp. There are buttons here and there, some rectangular, some rounded, some just plain text links, and more buttons popping up occasionally with labels hard to decipher.

Not so in Txp.

If you’re only running your personal site, this might not be much of an issue, but if you design sites for others to maintain it becomes crucial.

I realise this is mentioned on the front page to some degree, but I think it could be emphasised more.

Last edited by masa (2008-05-12 22:29:30)

Bloke · 2008-05-12 21:38:22

Totally agree masa. And Jon Hicks’ site was one of things that tipped TXP for me too. We should definitely play to all the strengths you mention imo.

colak · 2008-05-13 04:06:24

If there is a competition, regardless of the process, the requirements should ask for at least 4 templates

home page
article list
individual article
search results

In this way we can make sure that the design can work through the different areas. I believe that just a good home page is not enough, it is how that design relates to the rest of the site.

Last edited by colak (2008-05-13 04:06:47)

joebaich · 2008-05-13 07:34:04

Reading through the 3 pages of this thread and the constructive criticism in the Design Shack article, there is almost enough material already to write up a statement of work (SOW) to instruct a designer to design a new site.

I agree 99% with WET’s sentiments about a new design for the Textpattern site and especially his requirement that it be ‘Textpatternish’. I note his comment about the lack of funds to pay a designer and the notion that prestige can be the only reward. In a selfless world where there were no bills to pay, that might work. Perhaps there is a middle way that would combine some financial reward with prestige and yet would remain true to Textpattern. I trust the Devs’ individual and collective judgement and undertake now to give them $100 towards paying for a designer. I’m a Scot and not generous by nature and so would expect, $200 worth of design in return for $100 cash and $100 worth of prestige (or whatever equivalent sum can be reasonably attributed towards the latter). If a few more TXP users make similar pledges of any amount then we can get on with it sooner than later. I am not proposing that there be a competition per se, personally I was disappointed with the last Textplates. I am simply proposing that other grateful TXP users cough up some cash and agree to appoint Robert, Ruud and Mary, if she is still in the frame, to select a designer. No votes required, just let them get on with a selection. It is important that this should not become a YAC (yet another chore) for the Devs and that their contribution be sensibly limited to the selection, if they are willing. A good way to proceed would simply be:

Send the SOW to, say, no more than 5 Dev selected full time designers with recognized TXP expertize and ask them to express an interest.
Select a designer based on his or her expression of interest and perhaps his or her portfolio and track record.

Others, including me perhaps, can assist by writing up a SOW from the input here and other necessary administration. It’s only an outline at this stage and I can expand if folks are taken with the notion, especially if the notion is backed up by a pledge.

maniqui · 2008-05-13 08:08:43

Stop talking. Start doing. Right now.
(said by me, someone who’s always talking and never doing, so do what I say, not what I do).

I totally agree with Wet’s points

wet wrote: new visual and architectural concept.
I add: let’s start by suggesting/creating the content, the real content, the paragraphs, the headings, the slogan, the screenshots. Write it down, now! You will be proud saying: “I wrote that paragraph, then wet gave it a spin, and now it’s on the home page!” Content is difficult, so let’s it make it all together and then someone with great writing abilities could “homogenize” it. Of course, many of the current content of TxP home could go through a recycling process.

I don’t like the idea of a contest either, but this means nothing. I just don’t like. No Spec work (although this is probably a little different than no-spec work).
no money -> so, let’s make this a real community effort, no egos involved, one of TxP strengths is its community.

And I’m not talking about a community-driven site (with everyone having access to edit/add new content, that would make a mess) nor everyone putting their dirty hands on the sensual body of TxP main website.
It’s like a trying to conquer a girl’s heart: say something nice about her, then you will be on her heart, and maybe she will even tattoo herself what you said about her (yeah, I’m on a delirium tremens).
What I wanted to say is: write content, say something nice/useful/unique about it, then extend the idea and maybe you get the next TxP slogan.

keep the yellow, add some red, subtly, and you will have a great brand (like Kodak, McDonalds, DHL, Cluster, —ops, that one is mine—). No big fonts, no shiny icons, less is more, CSS is the key, wabi-sabi
it should be stated (subtly) that TxP uses jQuery, but that it’s not exclusive.
so, it could be good to have a few “eye candies”, like some UI tabs, or serial.Scroll (it will make a great alternative to lightbox for screenshots) to enhance the design and usability
wet wrote: aiming at designers and web builders, this should transfer to the visuals and copy : so, it should be stated that Txp is an empty canvas. I still remember a sentence on an old version of the download page: something like “Textpattern requires knowledge on XHTML and CSS…”
embrace the flexibility
embrace the elegance
embrace the simplicity
embrace the text
embrace the pattern
?
are you already writing some content? what are you waiting for?

masa wrote:

1) See What Others Have Done With Txp

It would be great to have a small and diverse collection of well-designed Txp sites as a thumbnail collection. If I were to decide whether Txp is suitable for my needs, I’d want to see some samples up front.

Probably, the best/easiest way to achieve this is aggregating a feed from WeLoveTXP.com sorted by ranking (if possible).
No need to reinvent the wheel. WeLoveTXP is doing a great job on indexing Textpattern-driven sites.

Of course, the best move is probably to show the best TxP sites out there, so maybe there is a way to setup the feed to deliver sites picked by hand.
Also, it could be a mix: first, at top of the page, the best of the best in the world of Textpattern. Then, below, the rest, fed randomly or by rank.

Last edited by maniqui (2008-05-13 08:36:03)

maniqui · 2008-05-13 08:18:40

Let’s continue with the list:

let’s show the world how easy is to create a multi-lingual webiste using Textpattern and the MLP. Of course, we should start with the english version, but have the MLP already installed. I can take care of Spanish translations (even dev weblog articles could be translated).
We need the content (did I already talk about the content?). Let’s get the content first: text, screenshots, bulleted list of features, sites using textpattern, bulleted list of best plug-ins out there, FAQs, help, dev weblog. We already have most of that content.
once we have the content, we can craft the HTML, of course, directly on Textpattern, using txp tags and all the magic.
yes, the final HTML could be touched here and there later, if there is really a need to adapt some complex design
then pick up your Photoshop and begin designing, based on the already carefully crafted content and HTML
yes! Like the CSS Zen Garden! I get it now! Do you?

So, let’s talk about some information architecture…

In the meanwhile, check this:
Textpattern.com on the WayBack Machine, I can’t find the sentence about HTML/CSS knowledge, but there is one similar: “if you’re not experienced editing with HTML then please hold off downloading Texpattern for now.”

maniqui · 2008-05-13 08:32:08

And here is the strawberry of our dessert:

Lets ask our Benevolent Dictator For Life if he would like to be the One to choose among the submitted designs!

Or even more: lets ask Him if he would like to create the design, maybe a rapid sketched mock-up. He created Textpattern, nothing could go wrong. We need His magical touch.
He even says He is still proud of Textpattern: http://www.textism.com/colophon
yay!

Last edited by maniqui (2008-05-13 08:32:52)

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