XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

Sencer · 2006-09-05 09:57:14

I’ve moved away from installing all the dev-related stuff onto my desktop machine. I much prefer using virtual machines which makes a lot of things easier. For example if you had the VMWare Player you could use one of the many ready-made virtual machines. For example here is a LAMP-image:
http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/465 (I didn’t test this, I am building my own)

I am then using sshfs to mount the disk of the virtual-machine as a local drive to access the files. On Windows there are only a few commercial (but worthwhile) tools to do that (like sftpdrive;webdrive etc.), however many editors have sftp built-in.

Advantages include easily being able to have several images with different mysql/php versions for testing, being able to move all development stuff to a different machine in a matter of minutes, easily backing up or cloning a complete vm, doesn’t take up memory or resources when switched off. If you have a computer with at least 512 MB Ram I would recommend to go this way (usually about 96 MB RAM for the VM will be more than enough).

marios · 2006-09-05 11:56:38

I wanted to move away from desktop storage as well. I also wanted to try out a reliable storage/backup solution as well that suits the needs for a multi-operating-system/platform network environment.
I tested the above by purchasing two NSLU2 Linksys storage links hooked up to a cheap D-link switch to increase networkspeed and four WDMybook USB drives 250GB each, that would give me a cheap 1TB network/storage solution.Backup is scheduled at 4 o clock in the morning everyday from one disk to another.
The initial Idea was to have all files centralized and accessible rom anywhere on the network.
Also upgraded firmware (Unslung 6.8 on one device)
In order to make this solution work one would have to unsling to an external disk, and then install another Samba package, that is able to handle proper file permissions.
With the current Firwares from Linksys and the like, you cannot change a Folder permissions to be read write and executable for owner group and world, which makes this pretty useless for development.
I tested also weather , a folder would retain it’s original permissions once dragged onto a mounted smb share in MAC OS 10.4.7 and then dragged back into its original location, and it doesn’t.
Permissions are lost once placed on a mounted share and set to 700.

In order to unsecure your shares, so you can do development on them, the only way to go is jump on the LINUX Bandwagon, so I wouldn’t recommend this solution, if you are not an experienced Linux User.
(Still deciding about the latter)
(If only Linksys had left on option, to unsecure all the shares in the administration panel, I would have been very happy, apparently the Default Firmware runs the old Samba 2 version)

EDIT.: Samba 3 is capable to handle proper permissions and map permissions between PC/UNIX if you
have access to the conf file, so if you want to try the above some experience about SAMBA is usefull as well,
before you attempt this

regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2006-09-05 16:24:41)

hcgtv · 2006-09-05 13:49:40

marios wrote:

@hcgtv, which installer packages are you using ?

apache_2.0.59-win32-x86-no_ssl.msi
mysql-essential-5.0.24a-win32.msi
PHP 5.1.6 zip package

Install Apache first, then MySQL and then follow the instructions to install PHP. It took me a few tries to get it just right, where I wanted it to go and such.

My directory layout:
c:\usr-bin has all the runtime stuff
c:\var-lib has the MySQL databases and temp directories
c:\var-www has the html documents

The directory naming is similar to my Debian server, so it makes it easy to move projects around.

Destry · 2006-09-05 19:19:52

Sencer, that’s interesting. A little question: would a virtual machine (of some type) serve the same function as a SSH server? The reason I ask, when I was checking out the sshfs utility, it was talking about mapping to a SSH server (remotely). I’m guessing the virtual machine (VM) serves the same role and the mapping is to the VM?

Sencer · 2006-09-05 20:23:02

Destry wrote:

Sencer, that’s interesting. A little question: would a virtual machine (of some type) serve the same function as a SSH server?

It would be an emulated computer complete with it’s own harddisk and operating system (usually all contained within a file on the host system). It could be running linux or windows (though linux would be preferred, given that you can leave out all the GUI stuff and don’t have licensing issues), and it would likely have an ssh-server installed (or you could install one later, if it doesn’t).

The reason I ask, when I was checking out the sshfs utility, it was talking about mapping to a SSH server (remotely). I’m guessing the virtual machine (VM) serves the same role and the mapping is to the VM?

Yes, I use it to mount the guest’s file-system (VM’s filesystem) as a folder in the host’s filesytem. sshfs requires linux though.

I forgot to mention: If you are running Windows, you can also install a samba server on the virtual machine, and access that from windows networking neighbourhood, like you would shared folders from another pc. Though samba can sometimes be tricky to configure. And I am not sure if the ready-made VMs have that pre-installed (but I am pretty sure they would have sshd installed).

marios · 2006-09-05 21:35:23

Sencer wrote:

I forgot to mention: If you are running Windows, you can also install a samba server on the virtual machine, and access that from windows networking neighbourhood, like you would shared folders from another pc. Though samba can sometimes be tricky to configure. And I am not sure if the ready-made VMs have that pre-installed (but I am pretty sure they would have sshd installed).

Serving Samba shares from a PC still doesn’t make sense to me. Too much Dust, too much Power consumption and too clumsy.
Storage links are easier to keep alive even with a modest UPS, and the USB disks are spinning down by themselves if not in use.
(approximately 100- 110 WATT for a whole setup in my case)

I probably have to go back to school again and learn a little about handling file permissions on Samba before I can set up all that up correctly.
I had a quick look at the relevant VM pages, never really knew about it. If I understand that right, the license for a workstation package is at 189$.
(Is there any beta releases to get for free ?)
<a href=“http://www.vmware.com/vmwarestore/pricing.html”>commercial packages</a>.
I’ll make use of the evaluation license on top of a XP-PC to try this out, since I am tired of my old Knoppix CD anyway.
It would probably make sense to upgrade memory as well to a decent amount, just to have room for other stuff.

regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2006-09-05 21:36:00)

Sencer · 2006-09-05 22:09:15

marios wrote:

Serving Samba shares from a PC still doesn’t make sense to me. Too much Dust, too much Power consumption and too clumsy.

I think we are talking about different things, marios. I am talking about virutalization. Everything is on one computer. Samba in that context is to allow the host system to have access to the guest system (or the virtual machine, or virtual appliance or qemu-image or whatever else it is called). Everything is still on the same physical machine. Since mounting one harddrive (virtual or not) from two OSs will result in data-corruption on most filesystems, you take the reroute oer the guest system+ssh or gues-system+samba to allow the host system to acces the data in the virtual machine.

I had a quick look at the relevant VM pages, never really knew about it. If I understand that right, the license for a workstation package is at 189$.

“VMWare Workstation” is a software package with special features, and hence costs money (for example it allows you to make snapshots and revert to to them from a running vm). You don’t really need that though, if all you do is some web-dev. You can use the vmware-player (free, as in free beer) and use it with downloadable VMs (again free). However creating your own VMs is somewhat clumsy with the player (There are no GUI options for it, you have to do it by foot; plenty of webpages describe how to). Then there is vmware server which is also free of cost and allows you to create new VMs yourself.

Or if you want to go the free (as in free speech) Software route, you should look at *qemu*(Qemu Download), but you should definitely install the accelerator for it (free as well), otherwise it’s just too slow, IMHO. With qemu you can also use a ready-made lamp image:
http://www.rpath.org/rbuilder/project/lamp/releases

hcgtv · 2006-09-05 22:11:50

marios wrote:

I tested the above by purchasing two NSLU2 Linksys storage links hooked up to a cheap D-link switch to increase networkspeed and four WDMybook USB drives 250GB each, that would give me a cheap 1TB network/storage solution.Backup is scheduled at 4 o clock in the morning everyday from one disk to another.

What a coincidence, I purchased a WDMybook 500GB external USB this weekend. It took me 4 hours to rsync my Debian server to the USB drive on Saturday. On Sunday, after I synced up my VPS and home laptops to the server, I rsynced it again and it took only 20 minutes this time.

I got real tired of doing the DVD shuffle, now all my data is safely stored away in my safe until next weekend’s rsync.

Sencer · 2006-09-05 22:33:04

I find it pretty courageous to trust so much data to single harddisks. I mean, it always goes well for a couple of years, but sooner or later you are going to get harddrives that turn bad – and ou’re not alwas lucky enough to notice early enough. And running them connected via USB which prevents some drives from powering down into powersave-modes rather increases than decreses that risk.

If spending money on some external hardware is an option, I would go for something like a Buffalo or Infrant which offers Raid 1 or Raid 5 (though with current low costs of harddisks, I’d always choose Raid 1).

Remember failing harddrives is not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. And that can mean 8 years, 2 years, but it can also mean 3 months.

hcgtv · 2006-09-05 23:56:44

Sencer, I hear you, failing drives are inevitable.

In my case, I just wanted another copy of my data. Now I have 2 copies of our data on hard drives, which adds up to over 250GB and growing. Of course, I also have copies scattered on tape, CD and DVD. The USB drive is just a clone of the server, restoring all of it from media would take a long time, so I opted for an external hard drive.

Eventually a 1TB NAS, like Marios has done is in the plans, I await hard drive prices to keep falling.

As for External drives, I’ve had my share of corruption with them, whether they were hooked up via USB or Firewire. That’s why I’m just using it for backup purposes, not hooked up all the time. Oh, and never defragment them under Windows, this can screw them up big time using NTFS, Fat32 seems to be more robust. I formatted my new 500GB drive as Ext3 under Debian, I’ve learned my lesson.

marios · 2006-09-06 00:48:30

hcgtv wrote:

I purchased a WDMybook 500GB external USB this weekend.

@hcgtv ,

did you as well observe, that the disk spins down after a while ?
Also, how much did you pay for it ?

Sencer wrote:

I find it pretty courageous to trust so much data to single harddisks.
I would go for something like a <a href=“http://www.buffalotech.com/products/product-detail.php?productid=127&categoryid=27”>Buffalo</a> or Infrant which offers Raid 1 or Raid 5 (though with current low costs of harddisks, I’d always choose Raid 1

As a comparison with US prices:

<a href=“http://buffalotech.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?vcode=PGBFT&partnum=TS10TGLR5”>Buffalo Terrastation</a>

<a href=“http://smallbusinesscomputing.com/buyersguide/article.php/3628286”>Review</a>

pros:

Support many different Raid configurations, <del>hot swappable disks</del>, four extra external USB ports for additional external storage
Running Samba(no mention again how and what version, and if you can access the conf file and the like, same trouble as Lynksys to find out what is under the hood), compatible with OS-x as well (Not mentioned in the specs anywhere)

around 750 US $ cheapest from Dell
(Probably much more expensive on the European market, especially here in Greece, if available at all for retail purchase)

My solution

2 x <a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Storage-Disk-Drives-NSLU2/dp/B0001FSCZO”>NSLU2 Slugs</a> = 2 × 83 $
4 x WBMyBook USB 2 250GB each = 4 × 120 $( estimated retail price on US market)
1 x DES 1005 Ethernet switch = 1 x 0 $ (was laying around unused)

Grand Total: = 646 $ (including VAT)

Sencer wrote:

Remember failing harddrives is not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. And that can mean 8 years, 2 years, but it can also mean 3 months.

That’s why my initial Idea was to schedule an additional Backup from one Slug to the other as well, in case one Slug fails,
Data is still available from the second one. (Without any Raid at all)

cons.:

no hot swappable disks.
Very bad firmware and sluggy admin interface, needs to be flashed in any case.
Difficult to set up.
Maximum 500gb per slug with any Firmware (Else trouble)
you loose one port if you want to unslug to an external filesystem and install other packages.

pros.:

backups from port one to port two don’t slow down network
Extremely low power consumption.
No heat.
Small.
Extremely configurable if Expertise and Time are present.
Can act as web server or svn server as well, if you know how to set this up
(Apache is probably a little too resource intensitive for this, but it would work)

So , considering the Time you loose with the latter, the Terratech could be worth spending the extra money.

<a href=“http://www.samspublishing.com/library/content.asp?b=Mac_OS_X_Unleashed&seqNum=232&rl=1”>Nice and simple rundown for SAMBA</a>
(Describing Access conf further down in section 30.4)

<a href=“http://www.cae.wisc.edu/site/public/?title=linpermissions-applications”>File and access permissions for shares</a>

(UPDATED)
regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2006-09-06 10:04:17)

Destry · 2006-09-06 10:58:41

Thanks again, Sencer.

Sencer spoketh: sshfs requires linux though

Ah yes, I meant to say sftpdrive (for Win), which was the site I was checking out.

Sencer decreed: On Windows there are only a few commercial (but worthwhile) tools to do that (like sftpdrive;webdrive etc.), however many editors have sftp built-in.

Hmmm. I suppose WinSCP3 is not one of those “editors” you speak of? It provides sftp and I can move things from drive to drive…and it’s free.

At any rate, that VM stuff is pretty interesting and seems like just the extent to which I, personally speaking, would go (and put to use). That other stuff you guys are going on about loses me, and frankly I don’t have that kind of time or ambition to mind it much. On the other hand, I am keenly concerned with doing local development/design and safeguard my work in a relatively easy manner.

At the moment I backup my whole system to an external Lacie drive (via USB) every couple of weeks, sometimes once per week if I’ve been especially productive. Generally I overwrite the previous backup. I also use the external drive for photo storage as well. When it’s not being written too (or pulled from) the external drive is off and unplugged.

This is all pretty straightfoward for me and seems to work fine.

Oh, one more thought about the VM gear, would that be a viable solution to installing IE6 and 7 without problems? Leave one on the main drive and one in the VM? I think I’ve read reports about that being the suggested way to go with multiple IEs when the new “seven” is concerned, but all the talk seemed bent on costly purchases of some sort.

Last edited by Destry (2006-09-06 11:00:51)

Sencer · 2006-09-06 11:31:57

Destry wrote:

Hmmm. I suppose WinSCP3 is not one of those “editors” you speak of? It provides sftp and I can move things from drive to drive…and it’s free.

WinSCP is great, I recommend it for moving files around when sftp/scp is offered (usually the case when you have an ssh account).

When I said editor, I meant actual text-/html-editors. For example ultra-edit. It allows you to access files directl from within the editor, without having to use a seperate program for transfer. Preferences are different, though. Some prefer an integrated solution, some prefer dedicated programms or mixed-use of both.

Oh, one more thought about the VM gear, would that be a viable solution to installing IE6 and 7 without problems? Leave one on the main drive and one in the VM?

Remember that you have install a complete perating system in the VM. So if you want to run IE7 in a VM, you have to first do a complete windows installation inside the VM, and then install IE7. Windows inside a VM is also more hungry for RAM. If your computer only has 512 MB RAM you’ll probably have to close all other applications, and dedicate enough RAM to the VM. If you have 1 GB or more, that’s less of an issue. That leaves only the necessary additional Windows licence as a potential hinderance.

I think I’ve read reports about that being the suggested way to go with multiple IEs when the new “seven” is concerned, but all the talk seemed bent on costly purchases of some sort.

Destry · 2006-09-06 12:10:05

Sencer clarified: When I said editor, I meant actual text-/html-editors. For example ultra-edit.

Gotcha. So let me backpeddle a sec. Does this mean I can use a free, combination solution (sftp/editor) like WinSCP3/Crimson Editor to work back and forth between the main drive and the VM…or do I have to go with an integrated tool like Ultraedit, SftpDrive, … at cost?

Sencer saged: if you want to run IE7 in a VM, you have to first do a complete windows installation inside the VM, and then install IE7.

Doh, of course. And therein lies the answer. /* <small>%{color:gray}No, fool, this is not how to handle IE7.%</small> */

marios · 2006-09-06 13:44:58

@destry

If just for Browsertesting , it would be easier may be just to use parallels instead of VMPlayer
(License at 49$, Evaluation 14days)
I am downloading it right now, to give it a try on top of XP, so I can have Linux as well.

regards, marios

Last edited by marios (2006-09-06 13:59:25)

Textpattern CMS

Textpattern CMS support forum

#16 2006-09-05 09:57:14

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#17 2006-09-05 11:56:38

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#18 2006-09-05 13:49:40

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#19 2006-09-05 19:19:52

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#20 2006-09-05 20:23:02

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#21 2006-09-05 21:35:23

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#22 2006-09-05 22:09:15

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#23 2006-09-05 22:11:50

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#24 2006-09-05 22:33:04

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#25 2006-09-05 23:56:44

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#26 2006-09-06 00:48:30

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#27 2006-09-06 10:58:41

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#28 2006-09-06 11:31:57

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#29 2006-09-06 12:10:05

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

#30 2006-09-06 13:44:58

Re: XAMPP on external drive: mapping trouble?

Board footer