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#1 2008-11-02 18:36:45

raveoli
Member
From: Copenhagen
Registered: 2004-03-06
Posts: 205
Website

[mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

Never wanting to talk behind anyones back let me shamelessly direct you all to my latest blog post, which revolves around my observation that Textpattern lacks momentum and leadership. Been said before in these circles, but for me it meant that I finally switched to WordPress, and really enjoy it;-)

So, without any further ado, please feel free to read:
Textpattern vs WordPress – a Lack of Momentum

Comment over there if you wish.

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#2 2008-11-03 04:38:49

hcgtv
Plugin Author
From: Key Largo, Florida
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,722
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

We’ve touched upon Textpattern issues before, in this forum a number of times. I think the reason your post here hasn’t garnered much response is that we’re all rather exhausted on the subject.

Now if I was to jump ship from Textpattern, Wordpress wouldn’t be the way I would head. The first thing I look at in a CMS is their templating system. There are very few systems out there that can match the elegant txp:tag system. Wordpress will always have PHP tags in their templates, they can ill afford to invalidate 1000’s of existing free themes or piss off web developers who can code custom themes in their sleep.

Where would I head if Textpattern died away? Now that’s a good question.

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#3 2008-11-03 06:28:51

wet
Developer Emeritus
From: Schoerfling, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,323
Website Mastodon

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

Quote of the day: “Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”

Basically, I don’t think Textpattern CMS covers the same application area as WordPress though both overlap at a certain point. As soon as a site can take advantage of Textpattern’s section semantics, it’s a labourious job in WordPress and largely relies on the theme coder’s imaginative capabilities. OTOH, if you want a dedicated blog engine, WordPress if a fine tool for the job.

Alternatives for Textpattern would rather be EE or Drupal from those which I know a little better. But these have their own quirks, too (e.g. server load or upgrade compatibility for Drupal 5/6/7 and third-party modules, user interface or license costs for EE). No idea about MODxCMS.

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#4 2008-11-03 08:24:50

raveoli
Member
From: Copenhagen
Registered: 2004-03-06
Posts: 205
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

I know lots and lots have been said time and time again in this forum. I didn’t write my blog post out of ignorance;-)

I’ve read up on the subject during the years – ever since Dean was suddenly absent for a month… Before returning with some lame excuses for not posting anything… As well as the Textpattern.com redesign project that fell to the floor, apparantly… Sad stuff.

Because… You are right – I totally agree, very few systems match the elegance, readability and flexibility of the Textpattern tag system. True WordPress use PHP, and I personally dislike PHP, as I’m no programmer, and feel it’s hard do read with all its brackets, parantheses, dots, commas, formatting, semicolons, etc, etc.

But, I found out that the template tags are very well documented, and not as hard as I had feared.

AND, the big bonus is indeed the theme system. Had I used WordPress since 2004, I would have a folder full of designs I could add to my portfolio. With Textpattern it’s a lot more dispersed, since the templates are pretty bound to the clients site, and sometimes a client site has to go down, and then I don’t get around to saving the template out before it goes down, and then it is lost in some backup folder that never gets revived.

hcgtv wrote:

We’ve touched upon Textpattern issues before, in this forum a number of times. I think the reason your post here hasn’t garnered much response is that we’re all rather exhausted on the subject.
Now if I was to jump ship from Textpattern, Wordpress wouldn’t be the way I would head. The first thing I look at in a CMS is their templating system. There are very few systems out there that can match the elegant txp:tag system. Wordpress will always have PHP tags in their templates, they can ill afford to invalidate 1000’s of existing free themes or piss off web developers who can code custom themes in their sleep. Where would I head if Textpattern died away? Now that’s a good question.

Last edited by raveoli (2008-11-03 08:27:09)

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#5 2008-11-03 08:31:51

raveoli
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From: Copenhagen
Registered: 2004-03-06
Posts: 205
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

I know Drupal very well, and it would be my first choice for anything large-scale, community-driven.

The fact is, for maybe 80% of my jobs, WordPress does an amazing job. Pages can be organized hierarchically, and everything is easy and smooth.

But what my blog post is really about, is the lack of momentum in the top of the Textpattern foodchain. The lack of people skills during the years, and fact that mostly developers have been brought to the throne. No communicators, no designers, only developers. Sometimes very snarky developers.

(not the recent developers I’m talking about here)

wet wrote:

Quote of the day: “Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”
Basically, I don’t think Textpattern CMS covers the same application area as WordPress though both overlap at a certain point. As soon as a site can take advantage of Textpattern’s section semantics, it’s a labourious job in WordPress and largely relies on the theme coder’s imaginative capabilities. OTOH, if you want a dedicated blog engine, WordPress if a fine tool for the job.
Alternatives for Textpattern would rather be EE or Drupal from those which I know a little better. But these have their own quirks, too (e.g. server load or upgrade compatibility for Drupal 5/6/7 and third-party modules, user interface or license costs for EE). No idea about MODxCMS.

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#6 2008-11-03 08:34:48

wet
Developer Emeritus
From: Schoerfling, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,323
Website Mastodon

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

raveoli wrote:

The lack of people skills during the years, and fact that mostly developers have been brought to the throne.

There is no throne I am aware of, and I know nobody who would bring anyone to such a device.

As well as the Textpattern.com redesign project that fell to the floor, apparantly… Sad stuff.

I’ve handed over the finalized required materials (site structure, copy text) to Matthew Smith, who is working on the layout since this past weekend.

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#7 2008-11-03 08:41:03

raveoli
Member
From: Copenhagen
Registered: 2004-03-06
Posts: 205
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

Okay, super! I hope it makes its way online;-)

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#8 2008-11-03 09:12:19

Gocom
Developer Emeritus
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 4,533
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

Little sidenote raveoli. It’s kinda odd to compare commercial CMS and hobby driven CMS, anyway, in exp. areas of leader ship, team positions and who are in the team. Ofcourse they got hard ass leaders, sepecific positions and so on. They also have offices and they get laid – er paid, for what they do. Common Textpattern dev goes to their work, runs, eats and shits, and then after that gets some time to develope CMS/plugins that is opposite of what WP dev does.

And you ask why Textpattern backend isn’t redesigned. It’s kinda easy to emprhase; Changing design is a too big change – it breaks current semastics, plugins and so on. Afterall everyone won’t even like the change, that most of all, it wouldn’t be suspected from minor update. That kinda of a big updates are usually only for the series/build -updates (not 4.0.x, but 4.x). It’s the way how updating should work. If we would get enourmous changes in every update, I probably would end my Textpattern plugin developing completely.

It’s still true that those all CMSes you mentioned are good – really good. Maybe the best part is that they usually have more “professional” developers as you stated. Not in criterias of their education/skills, but in what they do for 24/7. Also the user database is bigger, and consist any type of ppl; from non-tech knowing to pros, and that is fine with me. I actually like Textpattern’s smaller user base – who wouldn’t? It doesn’t mean TXP is bad (well it is bad in a good terms), or unstable. It’s just cute.

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#9 2008-11-03 09:21:27

raveoli
Member
From: Copenhagen
Registered: 2004-03-06
Posts: 205
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

The sheer innovation TXP brought to the table could have been brought a lot further, had all the focus not always been on “developers, developer, developers” but more on the holistic process of developing a good eco-system further.

Progress and change is good, right?

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#10 2008-11-03 09:24:47

raveoli
Member
From: Copenhagen
Registered: 2004-03-06
Posts: 205
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

Gocom wrote:

And you ask why Textpattern backend isn’t redesigned. It’s kinda easy to emprhase; Changing design is a too big change – it breaks current semastics, plugins and so on. Afterall everyone won’t even like the change, that most of all, it wouldn’t be suspected from minor update.

Well, don’t tell me an alternative stylesheet with a few new graphics would break anything. It’s been done, yet never made it into core.

From what you write I really take it you think change is scary… Let’s not hope Obama gets elected then;-)

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#11 2008-11-03 09:30:45

wet
Developer Emeritus
From: Schoerfling, Austria
Registered: 2005-06-06
Posts: 3,323
Website Mastodon

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

raveoli wrote:

Well, don’t tell me an alternative stylesheet with a few new graphics would break anything. It’s been done, yet never made it into core.

Textpattern 4.0.7 will send a few dedicated events where plugins can hook in any style sheet or script to override large parts of the default visual appearance (not markup). This could be exploited for agency- or customer-specific branding as well as for “skinning” Textpattern.

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#12 2008-11-03 10:08:55

Gocom
Developer Emeritus
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 4,533
Website

Re: [mention] Textpattern vs WordPress - a Lack of Momentum

raveoli wrote:

Let’s not hope Obama gets elected then;-)

Care about shit what happens in US(EC) :D All coverments are fucked up anyway, also here.

From what you write I really take it you think change is scary

No, I don’t like big changes between minor updates (ie. 4.0.6 to 4.07). Those are stable releases, which should stay stable, not bring a new massive features. But i love changes, and TXP always brings them with official updates, and plugins plugins plugins and plugins.

I really love TXP’s security updates too and speed optimazition ;) They don’t tell anything to the designer, but they are there. And those are big things, if you want to build secure websites with a good user experience.

Well, don’t tell me an alternative stylesheet with a few new graphics would break anything.

And i take your redesign as a “mockup” change ;) And note my other “everyone won’t even like the change” which I mean the look. Some of us do like Textpattern’s backend design. I don’t, but i think UI should always be minimalistic – beautiful but minimalistic. Calm colors, not hard to use and not anything that screams “I’m a Textpattern backend! I’M A TEXTPATTERN BACKEND! Do you notice my logos! DO YOU! I got a miljon colors and some curly graphics that won’t fit your site design, but look nice in backend screens” ;D

Last edited by Gocom (2008-11-03 10:10:27)

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