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[wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
(Starting this as a new topic pulled from under the rock here.)
This is what I hope will be a last but robust look at Textpattern internationalization objectives in terms of the product communication and support channels — namely, .com and .org. I’m particularly following this up because of the potential benefit TextBook could lend to this issue, and whether or not that’s something people found worthwhile to do. If so, now would be the time let it be known.
wet has made it clear the .com site will only be English. That’s a fair decision. The .com site has always just been English and there’s no fault in deciding to keep it that way, especially since only two people (wet and ruud) maintain the site. It would require considerable coordination and mods to the Txp install to make it a reality, and that’s just not practical under the resource constraints and necessary overhead. However, it is true this limits the reach of Textpattern to potential users who may like to use it but can’t because they don’t have sufficient information in their native language to help them become proficient. Indeed I’ve seen this very issue mentioned in the French forum (the only other one I can read). That’s a shame, especially since Txp boasts “over 130 languages” in its marketing.
The .com site is not the only problem to non-English speaking users. Plugin documentation is also a critical limitation to potential users. Indeed, I watched one user say in the French boards they switched to a different system because they couldn’t get support help in their language and mainly self-help because the plugins they needed to use only had English instructions. (They couldn’t ask in the main boards because they couldn’t use English well enough, and there wasn’t enough community knowledge in the French boards that could address the person’s inquiries.) I’m sure this is a situation more frequent than most people realize, and it’s a loss to this community because those potential users perhaps then go and use something more localized (e.g. Spip or DotClear in the case of the French community).
In the case of .com (including the FAQs, which are already translated in TextBook), what if a branch of the wiki was used to translate .com pages? This keeps the .com overhead normal and puts the translation into the communities hands, and still gives a channel by which to market Txp to non-English-speaking users.
As for plugins, the .org site is anticipated to undergo a major re-tooling as well (though no clue as to when at this point). Could part of that plan include a mechanism for translating plugin documentation in a cetralized, systematic manner? If not, then again, the wiki could be used for this. We could use wiki categories to organize plugin documentation by functionality and users could easily translate the plugin docs as translation mirrors…just as they do now with normal Txp docs.
It’s an alternative that costs nothing, requires no additional overhead, and anyone can contribute easily.
Perspective? Feelings?
Last edited by Destry (2008-10-27 11:43:13)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Destry wrote:
Could part of that plan include a mechanism for translating plugin documentation in a cetralized, systematic manner?
If you check every plugin doc License from the author then yes (docs aren’t always GPL). We can in example use Google Translator to translate it automatically.
But then you also have to host those plugin files on TXP.org, and that might get permitted by the lisence too (all plugins that include docs, extra files, flash etc).
Also note that some plugin authors will be against it. I am. I’m fine with the current situation: link to my site from TXP.org, but if everything moves there, with that I am not. Sorry :-)
If there are options to include file or not, or share docs or not, then I’m fine with the situation and most of all, in love. In example i would want to keep the situation where you can only publish link on TXP.org, like currently.
Last edited by Gocom (2008-10-27 12:00:30)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Destry wrote:
what if a branch of the wiki was used to translate .com pages?
Sounds like a plan to me. With the integration/bringing together of the various resources in terms of branding, this should work quite nicely.
Could part of that plan include a mechanism for translating plugin documentation
Noble idea. If the .com setup works, it’s fine by me because it’s no extra effort on my part (being a heathen and only able to speak one language). However, keeping up with the vast frequency of plugin updates may be problematic.
I’d like to have a central repo for plugins (though in that case I’d probably maintain an index on my site with appropriate links, instead of hosting them) complete with “updates are available” facility, as wet and others have suggested in threads I can’t find right now. As Gocom points out though, that may be contra to what some authors want. At the same time, nobody’s forcing anybody to have their docs translated so could it be up to the author if they want a translation section present in the wiki for their plugin(s)?
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Bloke wrote:
As Gocom points out though, that may be contra to what some authors want. At the same time, nobody’s forcing anybody to have their docs translated so could it be up to the author if they want a translation section present in the wiki for their plugin(s)?
I’d favor translations of plugin docs happening in .org, but that site is a bit of a mystery to me.
Translations in TxB are pretty straight-forward, and nothing would be mandatory. A plugin author might choose to open the docs to collaborative editing (and thus language expansion) or not. For those that do, their plugins might see greater use. Simple as that. They wouldn’t even have to maintain the English version in the wiki themselves, but rather let the community parallel their source doc at each version.
Last edited by Destry (2008-10-27 12:48:16)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Google has a number of translation gadgets, but the Translate Tools, and particularly the translation buttons, are rather interesting. Simply drag your language’s button to the bookmarks bar, and whenever you’re on a web page in different language, click the button/link. The native page is translated to your language, and any links you follow. The translation, of course, is not perfect (relying to a great deal on the writing abilities of the native author to begin with), but it’s not too bad either.
I point this out because it could be a good way for non-English readers to consume plugin instructions, assuming the author has made the instructions available on the web in HTML format.
Last edited by Destry (2008-10-28 09:29:38)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
The FAQ translations could be setup as described, but the English pages could simply contain a link to the English FAQ where it exists. This is an improvement over the existing process by offering the following benefits:
- Provides a more intuitive translation mechanism by making it a one-to-one mirror arrangement in the wiki. (Translators still have to translate against the English FAQ at .com, but at least it’s more obvious by having an English wiki page to mirror against instead of an external location mediated by a confusing and outdated Index)
- We drop the said Index in place of the more automated sub-categorization abilities of the wiki; easily mimicking the sub-categories that exist, indeed even improving upon them by easily creating additional categories having finer granularity and adding pages to multiple categories as relevant.
- Provides another vector to FAQs (which is never a bad thing for users needing help), without creating redundant content.
- The English pages serve as placeholders should FAQ owners like to use the wiki for English drafts in the future. If never, fine; it’s still a win-win all around.
Last edited by Destry (2008-11-06 13:09:01)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Destry wrote:
The FAQ translations could be setup as described
I’m with that and/or having them locked as you said above. Seems a logical step to take to help people find FAQ entries. Currently it is a little hit and miss, I find.
EDIT: Good link to the translate tools, btw. Thanks.
Last edited by Bloke (2008-10-31 13:03:45)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Bloke wrote:
EDIT: Good link to the translate tools, btw. Thanks.
Need more tools? :D And for Textpattern we have even plugin for that purpose, rah_google_translate ;)
Like Worms say it; Tools for evil chicksaw! Mu-ahhah-kjeh-koh :P
Last edited by Gocom (2008-10-31 16:01:10)
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Re: [wiki] TextBook as a translation aide for .com and .org?
Gocom wrote:
And for Textpattern we have even plugin for that purpose, rah_google_translate ;)
Yeah I saw you wrote that. Nice job, sir; you’re on fire!
Last edited by Bloke (2008-10-31 16:38:32)
The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.
Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp
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