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#1 2009-12-29 18:46:06

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,154
Website

Essential Forms

Just need a clarification of essential forms (txp_form.php):

$essential_forms = array('comments','comments_display','comment_form','default','Links','files');

These are my findings:

Form				Type		Protected	Hard Coded 
article_listing			article		no		no
comments_display		article		yes		comment.php, publish.php
default				article		yes		publish.php
lofi				article		no		no
search_results			article		no		publish.php
single				article		no		no
comments			comment		yes		comment.php
comment_form			comment		yes		comment.php
popup_comments			comment		no		comment.php
files				file		yes		taghandlers.php
Links				link		yes		no
noted				link		no		no
plainlinks			link		no		taghandlers.php

As you can see from the above table, some forms are protected but not hard coded and some are hard coded but not protected.

Could someone could shed some light on this, thanks.


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#2 2011-01-18 12:58:57

thebombsite
Plugin Author
From: Exmouth, England
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 3,251
Website

Re: Essential Forms

Just “bumping” this as I don’t think anything has been done about it yet.

Having said that, I’m wondering why we have “essential” templates at all, including the error_default page template?

I have to say that from a “themeing” point-of-view it can be quite restrictive which seems to go against the general flexibility attributes of Textpattern, plus there may well be several templates which simply aren’t used at all, “essential” or not.

Is anything likely to be done about this in TXP5?


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#3 2011-01-18 13:21:04

Bloke
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From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 5,909
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Re: Essential Forms

thebombsite wrote:

Is anything likely to be done about this in TXP5?

Yes. A Forms / Pages review is going to be undertaken when the new default theme is rolled in. New installations will have a trimmed down set of core Forms/Pages/Sections… uhh, lofi… I’ve never seen it used.

Last edited by Bloke (2011-01-18 13:21:30)


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#4 2011-01-18 13:57:19

hcgtv
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From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,154
Website

Re: Essential Forms

thebombsite wrote:

Is anything likely to be done about this in TXP5?

Please don’t shoot me. Is 4.3.0 the last of the 4.x series? If so, then is TXP5 the next version we should expect? The reason I ask is that I don’t see a roadmap (oh no!, he said the word).


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#5 2011-01-18 14:02:19

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 5,909
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Re: Essential Forms

hcgtv wrote:

Is 4.3.0 the last of the 4.x series?

Yes.

is TXP5 the next version we should expect?

Yes.

The reason I ask is that I don’t see a roadmap

Patience my young padawan :-) The cogs are turning behind the scenes and the map leads to buried treasure. You will be privvy to its charms imminently. Yarrr.

Last edited by Bloke (2011-01-18 14:04:12)


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#6 2011-01-18 14:06:01

thebombsite
Plugin Author
From: Exmouth, England
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 3,251
Website

Re: Essential Forms

Thanks Stef but are we still going to have “essential” templates or are they being dispensed with?

And off-topic, if slightly related to Bert’s question, when will we be able to get our hands on a Txp5 SVN to play with? Just a rough guess. I promise I won’t hold you to it. Honest. ;)

Edit: Mmmm, too late again.

Last edited by thebombsite (2011-01-18 14:07:11)


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#7 2011-01-18 14:19:18

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 5,909
Website

Re: Essential Forms

thebombsite wrote:

are we still going to have “essential” templates or are they being dispensed with?

No idea right now: not even got that far. I guess things like the ‘default’ (Form) and the ‘default’ Page are essential in the sense that without one or both your front page can’t render. Don’t know if that means TXP should forbid you from deleting them or if it’s caveat utilitor.

What I would like to see, at minimum, is the reduction of built-in Forms, Pages and Sections. Just the ones to do the job of displaying the default template.

With a templating engine of course, removing the default cruft and installing a new template is easier so, in theory, it won’t be so much of an issue if there are a few Forms that are surplus to requirement. But I’m of the opinion that less is more when you’ve installed a new product and are faced with figuring out what it does.


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#8 2011-01-18 16:56:46

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,154
Website

Re: Essential Forms

Bloke wrote:

hcgtv wrote: is TXP5 the next version we should expect?

Yes.

Ok, that explains things, cause I kept hearing TxP5 as the default answer for all requests of late.

I guess things like the ‘default’ (Form) and the ‘default’ Page are essential in the sense that without one or both your front page can’t render.

In the spirit of Apache, that spits out It works!, if you’ve got the web server up and running, we should have a default page, form and style. But really simple mind you, nothing fancy, and it should be protected in case the user mucks things up, there is a fallback. The only other things to ship would be the error_default page and search_results form, but with the capability to override them with a template’s own versions. I’m not going to get into comments, because I also feel that it should be split out into a plugin.

Anyway, I await the roadmap, where we can discuss this further.


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#9 2011-01-18 18:56:09

thebombsite
Plugin Author
From: Exmouth, England
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 3,251
Website

Re: Essential Forms

Personally I would prefer to see form="formName" be a required attribute for those tags that currently require an “essential” template and remove the block on the templates themselves.

As for the error_default page template there could be a preference, initially set to error_default, which would be a “select” field displaying all the available form templates. I’m not sure whether this might have a “blank” available as some people do prefer to use their server-based error forms (not sure if that’s doable through Txp).

Also we could have a repository for the initial templates distributed with Txp, well publicised I should add, that would allow anyone who needs to revert back to the defaults to do so easily.


Stuart – The BombsiteProText ThemesTextgarden

In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.

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#10 2011-01-18 19:49:28

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,154
Website

Re: Essential Forms

thebombsite wrote:

Personally I would prefer to see form="formName" be a required attribute for those tags that currently require an “essential” template and remove the block on the templates themselves.

I agree, no more hard coded defaults.

Also we could have a repository for the initial templates distributed with Txp, well publicised I should add, that would allow anyone who needs to revert back to the defaults to do so easily.

If we’re going towards a templating system, there’s no reason we can’t ship the defaults with the core in the template/theme directory. This alleviates adding all the info into txpsql.php and there would be an extra step in the install as to what template/theme to inject into the system.

So if you plan on starting a new site, you can download Textpattern and the template/theme you desire and upload the whole lot up to your web host. Then there’s no defaults to clean up, you start from where you want to start from. This can also be applied to plugins, what have you. Inspiration comes from doing a Debian net-install and apt-get is your friend sort of thing.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.


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