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#13 2008-02-19 16:47:54

marios
Archived Plugin Author
Registered: 2005-03-12
Posts: 1,253

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

I frequently visit th e tag reference, and tag listings for syntax check. ( Just did it yesterday, because I thought for some reason, that the linklist tak has an offset attribute, which it has not )

I find it is important, to guarantie some kind of (multilingual) permlink structure for these resources (without relying on cookies and such), that does not change.

Mediawiki allthough very robust, scares many Users off, due to this awkward bracket syntax. And the layout might be difficult to customize.
( Why didn’t they use HTML in the first place ? )

On the other hand TXP might not be the best Tool for such a large amount of Users.


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#14 2008-02-19 17:05:29

hakjoon
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From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
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Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

Alright I have a fresh new 4.0.6 install up on Textbook is someone wants to take a stab at recreating Textbook using Textpattern. If it works awesome. I think it’s not the right tool for the job, but I would love to be proven wrong.

This would require at the very least MLP and some sort of versioning. Preferably automatic, I’m sure md_versions could be modified to hook into the save event. It might just be a matter of modifying what event it’s attached to.

Who wants to give it a shot?


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#15 2008-02-19 17:36:27

marios
Archived Plugin Author
Registered: 2005-03-12
Posts: 1,253

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

MLP is not yet compatible with v 4.0.6, and I think that hakjoon is right, that may be for this particular Case, TXP isn’t right. What about scalability and support ? Can these be guaranteed ?
From what I’ve been reading, Mediawiki has good support.

regards, marios


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#16 2008-02-19 17:46:29

zero
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2004-04-19
Posts: 1,470
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Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

What are you referring to re scalability and support, marios? The number of editors? Are there limits on what txp can handle?


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#17 2008-02-19 18:01:16

hakjoon
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From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
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Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

Oh and let me repeat this. “I HATE MEDIAWIKI”. We are not staying with MediaWiki unless someone else wants to manage it.

DokuWiki was seen as at least slightly less of a Pain and it can use textile which is a plus. I would prefer to pursue adding the needed functionality to TXP vs having to leanr the ins and outs of another package that I don’t use for anything else.

I see versioning and multi language support as the bigger gotchas but it could also be a workflow issue. The whole process of creating new pages and interliking them is much more cumbersome in TXP IMO.

I really feel that the main problem with Textbook is content so whatever gets more people writing the better.


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#18 2008-02-19 18:35:05

marios
Archived Plugin Author
Registered: 2005-03-12
Posts: 1,253

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

zero wrote:

What are you referring to re scalability and support, marios? The number of editors? Are there limits on what txp can handle?

I was thinking about what Patrick just mentioned. That it is hard, timeconsuming und cumbersome, to do it at this stage, to get the multilingual IA structure right at this point. ( There is currently only one Developer on MLP ) Anyway, just my opinion.

( what I’d wish for the future, would be I tight Integration between MLP and TXP, but that didn’t happen yet )

regards, marios


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#19 2008-02-19 18:49:42

zero
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2004-04-19
Posts: 1,470
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Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

MLP is beyond me, like most of the technical stuff is, but I will be happy to put a lot of work into Textbook in a month’s time when I finish the work I’ve been forced to do. Patrick hates Mediawiki, nobody seems to want to take it over, nobody seems so keen to use Docuwiki, so it seems to me that Textpattern is the way to go. If you techies can sort it out between you, I’ll do all the copying and pasting and take charge of the editing etc. I’m sure some of you will keep an eye on me and make sure I keep the standards high ;)


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#20 2008-02-19 19:06:23

hakjoon
Member
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
Website

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

Here a few things that DokuWiki has going for itself.

  1. it can use textile along with other syntax options (markdown)
  2. organizatinal stuff seems better
  3. versioning and diffing
  4. It can convert the interface to the content language (this is something that people wanted at one point)
  5. There is no database
  6. Auto TOC
  7. Content locking for no edit collisions (txp does not have this AFAIK)
  8. Breadcrumbs
  9. syntax is extensible
  10. customizable Auth with experimental punBB one already (no more need for multiple accounts)

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#21 2008-02-19 21:22:25

marios
Archived Plugin Author
Registered: 2005-03-12
Posts: 1,253

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

So how this can be done then @zero? Patrick says, he has a brand new TXP install to hand over the keys.
As we know, 4.0.6 will NOT work with MLP, and I don’t think, that there is any other possible viable solution for the rest of the dozen of Languages.
And also it doesn’t make sense, to go backwards to 4.0.5.

Last edited by marios (2008-02-19 21:25:10)


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#22 2008-02-19 22:09:18

els
Moderator
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2004-06-06
Posts: 7,458

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

I agree with marios. Even if MLP will be updated for 4.0.6, depending heavily on a plugin (that is even also a hack) for an essential TXP site is not a good idea in my opinion.
Also, I don’t know DokuWiki at all, but it’s advantages that hakjoon mentioned – and especially # 3, 4 7 and 10 – seem really useful (if not indispensable) features, and it will take a lot of hard work at the least to make TXP do the same.

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#23 2008-02-19 22:25:03

zero
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2004-04-19
Posts: 1,470
Website

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

So how this can be done? Be patient? I’m sure Steve will make MLP work with 4.0.6 when he gets the time. Of course, future txp versions may give the same problem. Are we sure Dokuwiki is OK regarding language? I only speak English so don’t know what is involved. Here’s the dokuwiki language page

I’ve been looking at DokuWiki and the manual There’s a lot to learn. Transferring from Mediawiki is possible but only one page at a time

So there’s a real big learning curve and transfer won’t be much faster than transferring to txp. Is it practical to use txp? Or are we being too optimistic about it? Perhaps there are problems that will make it very difficult? I can’t answer these questions – it needs devs or plugin writers to advise. Mary has already said Dokuwiki, Patrick seems to be indicating Dokuwiki…


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#24 2008-02-19 23:00:49

hakjoon
Member
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2004-07-29
Posts: 1,634
Website

Re: [wiki] Textbook redesign 2

I think I can automate the page transfer. There is a perl module for reading MediaWiki dump files, I’m thinking is I combine that with the script to transfer the syntax we could make things quicker. I need to flex my Perl muscles a little (they haven’t gotten much use for a few years). I figure I might see if I can modify it to convert to Textile while I’m at it if I can.

There are some issues with translation. I think DokuWiki requires that all the pages have the same name, but the way it’s done is through namespaces which mimics how we do it now in MW.

At the very least this gives a tool that can use Textile which would also make a future move to TXP easier. I would love to do this in TXP as it’s a system I am already familiar with, but it seems pretty involved to make it work.

Oh and bert has started transfering some stuff over to dokuwiki so we can leverage that work.

Last edited by hakjoon (2008-02-19 23:02:19)


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