Go to main content

Textpattern CMS support forum

You are not logged in. Register | Login | Help

#13 2010-11-08 19:12:00

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 11,250
Website GitHub

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

Els wrote:

wouldn’t it be better to remove those lines (temporarily) because it doesn’t make much sense now?

Yep. But I’m not the .com guy. Stuart is the current maintainer.


The smd plugin menagerie — for when you need one more gribble of power from Textpattern. Bleeding-edge code available on GitHub.

Txp Builders – finely-crafted code, design and Txp

Offline

#14 2010-11-08 19:13:13

els
Moderator
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2004-06-06
Posts: 7,458

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

Ah OK, thanks :)

Offline

#15 2010-11-10 03:04:57

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,909
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

Thanks for the feedback. I think I meandered a bit in my argument, but I’m glad the main points got across.

Naturally, if a common masthead is going to happen, it needs adopted by the different sites. Silos would need to come down and more site manager collaboration would need to take place. It remains to be seen, but I’m all for it.

If nothing else, and Hakjoon has no objections, the wiki will continue with the masthead concept and make with the proposed changes to main nav links. Since the beginning, the common masthead idea has been proposed for the sake of usability — making it more obvious (and direct) for visitors to get around the Txp empire.

For kicks, let’s try and consider what might be involved with a wider adoption, and start from the top. I make no allusions that anyone besides Els and Bloke even care, so it’s just for kicks. Okay.

TEXTPATTERN.COM

It wouldn’t be that hard for .com to adapt, it’s practically there already. One thing we would have to accept in this case, though, is the positioning of elements would be different here because the template was designed specifically for .com. I’m talking about the wide left column aligned with the logo, etc. We can’t expect that to change. (Can we?)

In this case we could at least have some consistency in the proposed links themselves. Let’s consider how little effort that would require:

  • TEXTPATTERN – Not needed.
  • PLUGINS – This will be an important site when relaunched. Add this link in. Further, I’d replace the Features link with this one, since Features would be out of place with the others, really. Maybe better to demote it to left nav and put some gif fireworks around it. :)
  • DOCS – Already there. Easy. Change the link to the wiki. The textpattern.com/documentation page only has two main content items: FAQ and Manual (wiki). Plus a smattering of maybe you’re interested in this stuff, including the book ad. But really just a static page. If it made people feel better, we could build a special landing page in the wiki for that link that summarizes the same info. This at least puts the content in the DOCS location, and it’s then one less static page that .com has to maintain. Ideally, everyone might move the book ad to the footer of all family sites where it’s easier seen on a wider scale (smarter). And if you really want to get serious, you eliminate crazy things like a 1000-item FAQ by auditing/rewriting that intelligence into actual documentation in context, but granted that’s a deeper effort.
  • FORUM – Sorry, but the existence of textpattern.com/support is just silly. We all know the support around here is the forum, and that’s unlikely to change soon. Txp audiences likely know what a forum is and how to use one. The sensible thing to do is link directly to it and not waste people’s time. That page just reads like a lot of wanking. In fact, I bet nobody reads it; rather they probably get annoyed it didn’t take them where they expected to go, and never return there.
  • BLOG/WEBLOG – As long as we’re consistent. No change there.
  • THEMES – I suspect when TXP 5 is around, themes will be hotter than ever before. TxG is a historical site with relevant content to design/development. It’s a worthy main nav candidate. Add!

That just leaves .com’s About page. I mentioned in my previous post that it would be better served in the left column or footer. Very few visitors can give a rat’s arse for About pages. They’re like mission statements. Boring. Check your analytics and you’ll see I’m right (unless you’ve tricked them with that funny “software” label). About pages certainly don’t need a slot in the main navigation.

(Btw, it has to be said. Those kitschy strings on the .com main nav labels — “Look at the”, “Learn from”, “Check the”, “About the”… not good. Just visual/cognitive pollution. Sorry.)

PLUGINS

Bloke thinks the content could fit the masthead, and I’m sure it can. With the insights I have about that content so far, I whipped up another mockup showing a sample page of how the Plugins site could adapt…

Plugin Page Concept With Common Masthead

FORUM

I don’t have a mockup for this, but I think people can extrapolate easy enough now. You pull the proposed main nav links out of the “Txp Network Links” dropdown. No need to be redundant. (Maybe the remaining dropdown/links is put at right of search box at top-right of masthead and renamed “Other Community Sites”. Whatever.). The forum’s own functional links become the subordinate links to the ID bar (like the wiki, and as demoed in the plugins mockup above). Keep in mind those links adjust between logged in and logged out states (just like the wiki). The Login functions move to the Login/Logout location in the ID bar, and those links also change depending on status. It’s a perfect fit. Under that it’s just using the same forum layout but styled for color, fonts, etc. (Forum could use with some housecleaning/simplification, and now would be good timing.)

BLOG

Nothing to do.

THEMES

Just like with .com’s main nav links, this would be easy enough to tweak. But unlike with .com, TxG has the freedom to adopt a better masthead design, perhaps like proposed, while at the same time it can go with a custom template that’s better suited to themes content.

BUT…BUT WHAT ABOUT SQUAREDEYE’S TEMPLATE?

It’s only for .com, the only site that template was designed for. Every other site has unique content needs and that content should not be forced into shoes that don’t fit. A lumberjack would look funny in high heels, and fall down a lot.

The right approach is to figure out what your content is (the type and nature of it), make sure it’s lean (not full of ROT – redundant, outdated and trivial content), and then design a layout (or three) that fits it. Where conformance should happen is with the aesthetic styles (colors, fonts, etc), but that’s it!

I gave the example for plugin content, which just happens to be a simple three-column design with a reasonable left column width, but maybe other layouts are needed for that site too under different content outputs. Point is, it’s doable, and a mighty step closer to usable. Look at how the plugin concept is a strict focus on plugins, not a lot of redundancy with .com. Ideal.

Offline

#16 2010-11-10 04:03:46

jstubbs
Moderator
From: Hong Kong
Registered: 2004-12-13
Posts: 2,395
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

Hi Destry,

Personally I agree with you about a common masthead and it would have been a good idea to have addressed this when the TXP homepage was re-designed. However, before making any advances to a common masthead, it may be appropriate to seek permission/approval from the designer of the page (squaredeye) since any changes would affect their design.

Of course it may depend if there was an agreement on the design, but at a minimum the courtesy should be respected.

While working recently on the new txp.org page, there was a feeling of restriction given the main nav structure and two column layout of .com, so a common masthead would be welcome.

Offline

#17 2010-11-10 08:24:13

els
Moderator
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2004-06-06
Posts: 7,458

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

Destry

Great write-up, I like your ideas very much.

Jonathan

Seeking squaredeyes permission/approval – if appropriate at all – is skipping a couple of steps in my opinion. First thing needed is consent about Destry’s proposal. Sure we don’t need permission to think about this? I agree of course about the courtesy thing, but I guess we can leave that to those in charge of the .com site, if and when these ideas have taken shape.

Offline

#18 2010-11-10 12:53:42

Destry
Member
From: Haut-Rhin
Registered: 2004-08-04
Posts: 4,909
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

jstubbs,

Thanks for kicking in. I hear you about courtesy, and I’m very conscientious about Matthieu in all this. (And he’s welcome to pipe in here, if so inclined.)

First, we have to remember that his templates were designed for .com alone, not any other site. You seem to agree to what I’ve been saying since the redesign happened; too bad a common masthead wasn’t taken more seriously back in the day. (But that was the horse committee’s fault, not Matthieu’s.)

In any case, I’m not suggesting that .com changes its design/layout, or even colors for that matter. The only thing I’m pointing out for .com, really, are content tweaks (links, mainly), and that’s not Squaredeye’s call, so asking his permission isn’t really relevant, as Els recognizes. It’s likely Robert who makes the call about content, and as I alluded to in the beginning of my previous post, he may care or not and that’s fine. It’s the other sites that really stand to gain (but .com too if it played along).

To be clear, the common masthead design changes that I’ve been showing here are meant for the other sites, not .com. Textpattern.com should keep it’s current design, with the constraining left column aligned with the logo, etc. That also means the masthead for the Blog. But I’m presuming the Forum is a different story even though it’s sitting on that domain, or it would have already been designed differently. Clearly those templates aren’t a good fit for a bulletin board.

Without a doubt, the masthead I’m proposing for the other sites is a HUGE step closer to alignment with the aesthetic aspects of the “style guide”. Even the layout changes, which are necessary (because of the .com grid that’s centered around the logo), don’t detract from the common feel. More importantly, they improve the global usability.

Anyway, next iteration of the wiki should see something more in this direction, with a few more of the body styles implemented too.

Offline

#19 2010-11-10 16:53:39

hcgtv
Plugin Author
From: Key Largo, Florida
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,722
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

Destry wrote:

To be clear, the common masthead design changes that I’ve been showing here are meant for the other sites, not .com.

This reminds me of when the idea of a common navbar was born at Nucleus. Once we got the specifics ironed out, each site included the navbar from a central location atop their sites. That way each site could have their own look, but retain similar navigation.

Once the navbar was in place, getting around was much easier and the users gave it a thumbs up. I’m not proposing a navbar for Textpattern, but common navigational elements between sites does improve the experience for new users.

Offline

#20 2010-11-20 18:52:13

thebombsite
Archived Plugin Author
From: Exmouth, England
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 3,251
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

I haven’t been ignoring this thread. Just been a bit too busy to do anything useful about it.

I now have a network navigation bar sitting on Textgarden for you to have a look at. I like the idea of having one of these but I felt that there were 2 things wrong with Destry’s visualisations. The first was that I thought it a little too heavy; the second was that it gets jumbled into the site.

With the exception of the “button” which I’m still not happy with, I think I have a more pleasing solution. Maybe someone with better image manipulation skills can have look at that button.

The navigation is completely separated from the site by the tag line – search block. I’m kind of assuming everyone is going to have one of those. By doing it this way I feel that the actual design of the site itself can be left completely to the wishes and needs of those involved. They don’t have to look like Textpattern or Textgarden (which I am perfectly happy with by the way).

Anyway see what you think. The twitter feed has been removed from both Textpattern and Textgarden already so adding a tag line to replace it is a good idea in my opinion. What those tag lines are to be probably needs some discussion though I have no problem with Destry’s current suggestions. I quite like Robert’s latest contribution. ;)

I am off to eat now so chat amongst yourselves ‘till I get back.


Stuart

In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.

Offline

#21 2010-11-22 23:07:20

els
Moderator
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2004-06-06
Posts: 7,458

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

I like the smaller navigation bar, for me it’s still clear enough on which site I am ;) And I think the more emphasized separation from the site’s header indeed leaves more room for the individual sites’ layouts.
I haven’t thought about how Textbook would look with this, it’s a bit different from Textgarden or the .com site. Destry?

Just one thing: I wouldn’t have said ‘txp forum’, there is only one forum so why not just ‘forum’? (It doesn’t say ‘txp plugins’ or ‘txp docs’ either.)

Offline

#22 2010-11-23 00:04:24

thebombsite
Archived Plugin Author
From: Exmouth, England
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 3,251
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

You word is my command ma’am. ;)


Stuart

In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.

Offline

#23 2010-11-29 14:56:22

datorhaexa
Member
From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2005-05-23
Posts: 115
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

I might be picking again at details, but I think that the logo inside “network” doubles badly with the TXP logo on the Templates site. Wouldn’t it be better to just keep “Network” as text + double arrow and leave the logo at its place? Stuart, what do you think?

Offline

#24 2010-11-29 15:10:23

thebombsite
Archived Plugin Author
From: Exmouth, England
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 3,251
Website

Re: [wiki] Wiki Progression

I don’t have a problem with that Ralitza though I did try and keep the network logo small so that it didn’t clash.

The problem will be how the other sites deal with their main logo. The idea here is to have something that can be replicated throughout the network and at this point the design of the navigation hasn’t been finalised nor discussed a heck of a lot. :(


Stuart

In a Time of Universal Deceit
Telling the Truth is Revolutionary.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB