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#101 2010-06-10 14:51:09

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 5,979
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

NicolasGraph wrote:

I don’t know if I understand very well, because the following line <txp:if_different><br /></txp:if_different> allow me to not display <br /> if tag is ignored

My bad, you’re right. I put your code in an article and hadn’t turned off textile round the tag so I was getting tonnes of BRs in the output.

and I think break is not supported by smd_tag_name… No?

Correct. It’s not an attribute because it’s a single tag.

merz1

Hehehe. I just never figured anybody would want to list all the tags unless it was as part of a cloud. The tag_list and all other tag_ functions are context sensitive for that reason.

By way of an update, I’ve spent another month or so on this plugin behind the scenes and it now has:

  • an rss_unlimited_categories and tru_tags import screen
    • import tags to root or any parent tag
    • if using rss_uc, it allows you to choose the parent cat to start at
  • live tag search by name, title, parent, or linked category
  • multi-edit capabilities on filtered tags:
    • delete
    • assign to parent
    • link to category
  • popup multi-edit reports to show you what just happened

And a few more minor bug fixes. I’m currently refactoring the delete/assign functions so they are more efficient. They were originally conceived for single operation so calling the functions one by one for each tag is s-l-o-o-o-o-o-o-w. Once that’s out of the way I’ll publish it.

Last edited by Bloke (2010-06-10 14:51:50)


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#102 2010-06-10 16:02:02

maniqui
Moderator
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2004-10-10
Posts: 2,989
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

Bloke wrote:

I suspect Els and maniqui, among others, might be interested in adding this technique to their tag arsenal :-)

Hehehe. I’ve seen the txp-tag-as-break-attr-value rrick before. I think it was Els that did it.
In this case, using if_different as value is totally brain-melting. I can’t follow it.

Good trick (if I only understood it), NicolasGraph!


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#103 2010-06-10 16:38:55

merz1
Member
From: Hamburg
Registered: 2006-05-04
Posts: 994
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

I can’t follow it.
Good trick (if I only understood it), NicolasGraph!

It’s thinking backward like the new TXP tag ‘what was it’s name’.
The wrapping (!) if_different ‘break’ envelope is empty until if_different spits out a br AND the next tag name shows up before it.

Stef

tru_tags import screen

Import or sync the ‘keywords’ field?
Import is nice until someone (me) has to update (and check) all the forms where field ‘keywords’ is used.
Eg the form which is appended by tru_tags to my feed (?). Will it work?


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#104 2010-06-10 17:52:21

NicolasGraph
Member
From: Strasbourg, France
Registered: 2008-07-24
Posts: 146
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

Stef, I was wrong with <txp:if_different><br /></txp:if_different>.
I’ve update my post and it works now.


Nicolas

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#105 2010-06-10 22:34:27

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 5,979
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

merz1 wrote:

Import or sync the ‘keywords’ field?

Import. What’s the point of syncing them and keeping them constantly synced? As far as I can see, there’s no benefit in having tru_tags and smd_tags working side by side. If all you want is tags in articles, single-tag filters and a full list of tags beneath your keywords box, then you don’t need smd_tags. tru_tags is the perfect choice (and isn’t still in beta after N years!)

If, however, you want to embark upon slightly more structured tagging (not compulsory, but it’s possible) of all content types and you want your visitors to be able to explore interactions between the types or do multi-tag filtering then smd_tags is the way to go. The import is simply a convenient means of not having to enter all the article tags again; they are preserved in the articles they are already assigned and created if they don’t exist already.

There’s nothing to stop you running the import again to update the two systems, but I envisaged that after you’ve imported them you turn off tru_tags or rss_uc. If you want to take advantage of the power of smd_tags you need to change your tags in your forms anyway (smd_where_used to the rescue!) otherwise there’s little point in using smd_tags.

Perhaps I don’t understand how you intend to employ smd_tags. It doesn’t use keywords at all and I don’t intend to make it do so. How would you leverage the two plugins side by side? I’ve never used tru_tags so I don’t know anything about a form that it automatically adds to feeds. Isn’t a feed just a list of article titles/excerpts that allows someone to decide if they want to click and read the full article? Why would they want to click on a tag in a feed and, more to the point, what would it do if they did? (sorry for my ignorance here)

My only exposure to feeds has been the standard article ones or custom XML feeds to serve/export to other systems. If I ever need a feed that the built-in tags can’t deliver I write one in a dedicated section or use rah_external_output. If there’s an alternative mechanism for integrating extra data into a stock TXP feed and it’s actually useful for visitors, I’d love to find out how.


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#106 2010-06-13 07:35:58

merz1
Member
From: Hamburg
Registered: 2006-05-04
Posts: 994
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

Hi Stef. Thanks for clarifying the import/sync question.

I have to think (decide) about the point more structured tagging though. Multi-tag filtering is definitely on my wish list from the very first beginning.

Re. ‘feed attachment’: Nathan is using a convenient TXP hook to attach individual content to feed items as explained in Customize your RSS and Atom feeds.


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#107 2010-06-13 08:37:15

Bloke
Developer
From: Leeds, UK
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 5,979
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

merz1 wrote:

I have to think (decide) about the point more structured tagging though.

Yes. It’s a sort of trade-off because out of the box smd_tags works more like rss_uc where you define the tags that people can choose from and they are limited to using those tags. However, the TextArea+ input system allows free-form tagging a bit like tru_tags insofar as your authors are allowed to add new tags. And you can create new sub-tags by specifying the parent as well if you wish, e.g. parent-->child.

You don’t see the long list of clickable tags in TextArea+ mode but you can use the jQuery autocomplete plugin to help find tags that are already defined and thus avoid near-duplicates being created (e.g. sort vs sortable). I believe tru_tags solves this by allowing you to define synonym tags, which is both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because you can create other synonyms such as order => sort (smd_tags won’t do that), but (I think) you are always on the back foot with regards your user base who may define tags first which you then have to sanitize afterwards…. unless you can pre-empt their every tagging whim!

Multi-tag filtering is definitely on my wish list from the very first beginning.

It’s partly done. I think OR filtering is done but I struggled with AND filtering. I’ll have another go at that some time because it’d be insanely useful.

Nathan is using a convenient TXP hook to attach individual content to feed items

Hey, that’s neat; thanks for the link. Might have to steal borrow that idea one day :-)

Last edited by Bloke (2010-06-13 08:38:36)


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#108 2010-06-13 15:39:09

merz1
Member
From: Hamburg
Registered: 2006-05-04
Posts: 994
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

Stef, thanks again for your thoughts. Just two more thoughts to add some more ‘colour’ to the import/sync discussion:

(I know the following is possible with smd_tags as well.) Well, my strategy towards using tags/keywords is stamped with ‘free’ as in ‘free from any structure’ which also follows the (semantic?) model of Textpattern where categories are ‘free from sections’ as are keywords. I kind of have a personal unease with jamming the tags into a content structure (even if possible). So for now I am happy with the free flying keywords (and the two categories restriction / and tru_tags features) but of course I see cases where I would need more structure.

Which brings me back to your statement:

Perhaps I don’t understand how you intend to employ smd_tags. It doesn’t use keywords at all and I don’t intend to make it do so.

In the very beginning of the tag feature discussion I was looking for a plug-in which would blow up the feature list what could be done with the keywords field. As simple as that. I always wanted to have the possibility to rollback to the TXP core features related to the keywords field. Maybe this is stubborn but I like to stay with TXP core tables & field set as long as possible :)


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#109 2010-07-24 21:40:06

aswihart
Member
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2006-07-22
Posts: 345
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

Hi Stef, this plugin in sick, thank you for sharing your talents with us. I’m eagerly awaiting the upgrades mentioned above coming down the pipeline.

First, thank you for including Autocomplete feature, this really enhances usability with a huge pool of tags. Now, I’m trying to edit the Autocomplete options (autoFill: false, matchContains: true, minChars: 3), but I’m unable to successfully edit the Plugin code for some reason, when I hit save I just get a blank screen and the changes aren’t saved. I remember running into this in the past with certain plugins, but I don’t remember what the problem / fix was. Any thoughts? Maybe I could try ied_plugin_composer (will try and report back when I get a chance).

Again, thanks for another great plugin Stef. Obviously I’m late to the party, but I do tend to lag behind discovering the brilliance of your plugins by a couple years, so I’m actually a little ahead of schedule on this one!

Last edited by aswihart (2010-07-26 01:47:09)

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#110 2010-07-26 01:55:39

aswihart
Member
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2006-07-22
Posts: 345
Website

Re: smd_tags: unlimited article, image, file and link taxonomy

merz1 wrote:

I have to think (decide) about the point more structured tagging though.

One element that I would consider “structured tagging” in smd_tags that is very useful for the site I’m working on is being able to associate categories with tags and then filter the tags on the “Write” tab by selecting categories. This provides a novel dose of “Write” tab customization within the category hierarchy, similar to what bot_write_tab_customize or sed_section_fields provide for different site sections. By selecting a child category just two levels deep, the number of tags available to select from goes down exponentially and instantly becomes a much more relevant vocabulary for Autocomplete to reference (or a much tidier multiselect box).

And the other “structured” enhancement over tru_tags is of course the tag hierarchy, which adds a much needed extra content hierarchy within Textpattern, in addition to sections and categories (while Drupal for instance allows an unlimited number of hierarchical taxonomies). Both of these features are very helpful when you have thousands of tags that exist on a spectrum of specificity and may or may not be correlated with the separate category hierarchy.

And finally, it is excellent that smd_tags exists independently, leaving the Keywords, Category, Section, and Custom Field areas open for additional content taxonomizing / typing with tru_tags, rss_unlimited_categories, adi_menu / cnk_section_tree, and glz_custom_fields.

There’s *just one thing*— when filtering tags on the “Write” tab, I need it to work one way but it currently does something a little different— I need it to show tags that are associated with any category up or down (but not across) the category hierarchy (grandparents, parents, self, and children— no aunts / uncles, cousins, or siblings). Currently, tags are filtered so that you only see those associated with categories down the hierarchy (self and children). The current behavior results in hiding “generic” tags that are unassociated with any category. It would be great to have a new category-association behavior option:

  • to show tags associated with any parent of the selected category (including “generic” tags that would by default be treated as assigned to an imaginary “god” category).

While the plugin does associate any child tags of a “category-associated tag” with the same category, what I’m asking for might be accomplished by somehow mirroring that behavior on the category side: associate any child categories of a category associated with a tag with the same tag. So, unassociated tags, treated as being associated with a make-believe “god” category, would actually be associated with all categories.

This may initially sound unintuitive and not useful, but in practice, this is the behavior that is needed sometimes. The issue I’m having (referencing my medical site in progress) is, say your diagnosis (tag) is bowel obstruction, while you have categories for stomach, small bowel, and colon. You don’t want to assign bowel obstruction to one of those specific categories, because it could apply to any of them, so you instead associate it with the gastrointestinal category. Unfortunately, when you do this, and you select small bowel on the “Write” tab, bowel obstruction gets hidden.

Another nice feature, which may be more complicated to implement, would be to limit available tags to those that don’t contain any children. This is another hierarchy behavior that will be preferred in some cases and has been created in different forms in various plugins. It would cut down on some of the “Write” tab tag bloat that would come with the more lax tag-category-association behavior I’m asking for.

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