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#11 2007-04-20 12:02:34

zem
Developer emeritus
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-04-08
Posts: 2,579
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Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

Will these new core developers also be able to take part in the decision making process in the same way as yourself, Mary and Kursor – i.e be of equal standing?

If they make good decisions, sure. That’s why we need to see patches.

I’m not quite getting why all of a sudden part of TP needs to become commercial

Who said part of Textpattern was becoming commercial?

when I expect there are brilliant developers out there who might like to be part of the core team and give some of their time for free.

Great! Ask them to send us some patches please.

Last edited by zem (2007-04-20 12:09:24)


Alex
tstate

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#12 2007-04-20 13:15:57

squaredeye
Member
From: Greenville, SC
Registered: 2005-07-31
Posts: 1,495
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Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

Alex,

  1. I TOTALLY understand the need for income in order to support the growth of Textpattern. As a freelancer that makes sense to me more than some. :)
  2. 4.05 itself will be not be a membership upgrade from 4.04 correct? It is that 4.05 may have additional features (or some of the other things you’ve asked for votes on) that would make a subscription attractive.
  3. You’ve commented above that patches are a good way of knowing if the patcher is a good candidate for joining the dev team. Is it possible that it is upsetting to some people that the possibility for inclusion seems so arbitrary or done without a system? It doesn’t feel transparent to me personally. Not that transparency is your goal, but might I suggest that if the dev team wishes to maintain the support of some of the core players in the community, that you might develop a more systematic understanding or approach to being part of that team? In addition, I would think that the ability to patch something is only one quality of what makes a good part of a leadership team for TXP? Would you agree?

This has been a common theme for those with disagreaments with the team. The fact that the distance between the devs and the users isn’t well deliniated. It can feel foggy. I would think you could garner some serious support of your efforts if as suggested before you worked to develop a roadmap for where TXP is heading (subject to change :). It wouldn’t even need to have more than a very basic timeline (also subject to change).

Therefore:
I would formally like to request a seat on the Development Team. I would like to participate in the following ways:

  1. help plan a roadmap for future releases of TXP
  2. Develop a clear framework for how the Development Team interracts with the community:
  3. Help think through the conceptual qualities of the CMS from a designer/developer point of view

I’ll submit a specific request to Team Textpattern as well.

Matthew


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#13 2007-04-20 13:32:26

colak
Admin
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-11-20
Posts: 5,017
Website

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

Firstly let me say that I agree with Matthew who said it so much more eloquently than I could and although I earn no income from the web, I’m not against a paid version of txp as I can only imagine the hours of work been offered by the developers for free. I nevertheless have some thoughts regarding a paid version

  • the price:)… Nothing mentioned yet…
  • the method of payment. ie if paypal is used a sizable number of members from this community will just NOT be able to ‘buy’ it due to paypal’s country restrictions
  • The method suggested which is based on a monthly basis… What about ‘selling’ it like other software. What happens to someone who doesn’t pay their monthly dues? Is their site going to go off line? Will there be a message on the screen? Will they have to stand in the corner of the room wearing a pointy hat?
  • SVN is currently discouraged on Live sites. Paying members would expect official minor updates on a regular basis. This to me means zipped files either posted or otherwise made available to them.
    • This also might imply that another svn should be maintained which will just deal with these ‘official’ patches.
  • My main worry about the paid version is that it might divide this community.
    • There will be those using pro
    • And those who don’t

zem wrote… twice in this thread

Ask them to send us some patches please.

I seem to remember that Dean, when he was ready to give up on txp, asked a series of developers, including you, to take over the software. The transition was gradual before Dean has eventually disappeared from this forum.

I also seem to remember the rc1 days where there were only a handful of plugin developers around. (One of the main criticisms against txp at the time was the limited number of plugins it had)

This is no longer the case. I understand how a plugin developer is different to a software one but this is where all our current developers started. Some months ago there was a discussion in this forum to expand the txp team but there was resistance from both some members of the community as well as the team. I think that today, txp has the most php savvy people it ever had. And the list is growing. Did the txp team invite anyone to join them in their efforts? Via email, not through the forum.

I do not wish to fight with anyone or even sound ungrateful to the great job the txp team is doing. Txp (and this community) has changed the way I see the web and web publishing. And I think that this is true for a lot of people here. I also think that (if I were a programmer) I would probably find it very difficult to be as gracious as you people are:)

This community to me is a melting pot of ideas re web publishing (and other issues:). My worry is that this might change if a paid version is released.

As I said before…

  • I would be willing to pay for the pro version as I respect the amount of work the developers have put into this
  • I have my doubts re payment methods
  • I have my doubts respectful reservations whereas all avenues have been explored thoroughly enough before this decision re paid versions was taken

Yiannis
——————————
neme.org | neme-imca.org | hblack.net | LABS

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#14 2007-04-20 13:48:08

nardo
Member
From: tuvalahiti
Registered: 2004-04-22
Posts: 739

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

The poll is trying to guage what people would like in return IF they were to shell out some dollars & dineros…

let’s keep it on-track!!

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#15 2007-04-20 14:03:05

Neko
Member
Registered: 2004-03-18
Posts: 458

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

OMG not another thread full of Textile-formatted lists, requests for wikis, timelines, frameworks, some other crap.

Just tell me when 4.0.5 is ready and how much is the optional yearly subscription amount.

Last edited by Neko (2007-04-20 16:19:09)

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#16 2007-04-20 16:06:04

FireFusion
Member
Registered: 2005-05-10
Posts: 698

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

Remember no one is saying Textpattern will cost anything in the future

The membership will just offer one or some of those features and be a means for them to continue with their excellent work. Textpattern will still be free.

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#17 2007-04-20 18:33:24

Jeremie
Member
From: Provence, France
Registered: 2004-08-11
Posts: 1,578
Website

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

To get back to the original vote, my little opinion on the vote and the choices:

First, it’s clear it’s an optional “add-on” of some sort. A way of keeping the software free and open-source, and yet to generate more income from it.

Let’s see the options:

  1. Exclusive plugins or add-on features: it’s sort of happening right now with plugin’s ransom and subscription for Zem_Redirect_Pro and the Professional Series. So if that works, I don’t see the need for another “official” one. If that doesn’t, I’m not sure making it closer to the core in appearance will make it successful.
  2. Official documentation: I’m very much against it. First, it’s not a good business move. Writing documentation is a huge task, one that require specific skills… if it was that simple, the core team would have written the upcoming Textpattern book. Besides, the documentation would have to be damn good to shadow the TXP community work overall, which is a very, very good one. And it would drain from that community… why bother solve someone’s issue, or write a piece of tutorial or documentation article, if you can sell what you produce to the Team Textpattern for inclusion in the official documentation? And finally, it’s a deterrent for new user: ask a question, get the answer “it’s explained in the official doc”, but the doc isn’t free, so you’ll join less easily the TXP users.
  3. Improved support resources for members: bug reporting, additional forums: this is the one I voted, because I didn’t know what else to vote and the vote doesn’t allow any kind of granularity. It’s a way of serving people who need answer, but can’t find it or don’t have the skills for it. If a database goes haywire while running TXP, if massive spam is going on, if a site was hacked, and if it’s not a small personal blog but a major client’s professional website, you want the best and more knowledgeable to investigate the issue with you, and more important to commit to finding a acceptable solution (which can’t be promised of course, but that’s the closest thing available). But alone I’m not sure that would generate enough income.
  4. Extra content: articles, tips, examples, etc: without insulting the core team, the makers are not the best users. I don’t see how they could best the community produced content of TXP snippets, website thinking, etc.
  5. Inclusion in a directory of Textpattern web sites: that’s a pretty basic one, and I almost voted for it. However it’s so basic that I felt my vote was not worth it, since it will be done either way. It’s selling backlink, plain and simple, and yet effective.
  6. Swag: a T-shirt, coffee mug, or other merchandise: not enough hype to justify a exclusive item. However, opening a small shop of TXP merchandise might be worth it. But it doesn’t need to be inside a TXP member program, the more it’s open, the better it will work.
  7. Nothing, I’d just like to help support continued Textpattern development: quite much something I already do (in time mostly, but since I haven’t been able – yet – to use TXP professionally as much as I wanted, I can’t right now overgrow massively my $300 donated or so). And donation doesn’t work that well, we all know that, so I don’t think it’s a profitable move for the TXP team.

However I have a small idea of income for them, maybe alongside all that… I’ll mail it to Alex.

Last edited by Jeremie (2007-04-20 18:35:32)

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#18 2007-04-20 19:28:01

DigitalRealm
Member
From: Greenville, SC
Registered: 2006-07-22
Posts: 139
Website

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

Here is something to think about…..

First
Would people really pay for extra features (plugins especially), when they can go to another CMS or blogging engine that already offers that functionality, and a better community, and a better support system, plus so much more for free?

Second
What happens if you release a “Pro Version” or “Paid” plugin that provides X features. Then, someone comes along and builds that same plugin, with same functionality, and it is free.

I am assuming that a monthly fee would give access to the entire range of features, not just specific plugins, etc. so the second thing I mentioned above may be irrelevant.

In my personal opinion
I think that it would be better to figure out a way bring on more core developers. Forget the “submit a patch” crap for finding them. You simply offer the opportunity for people to join the team, narrow down your choices based on certain criteria, and put them to work.

Give them smaller tasks at first in order to work them into the core group and build that reputation, then give them more prominent tasks that really spreads the major workload of the core team. That reduces time spent for everyone and allows for better development across a wider range of developers.

I think that this is the way to really continue the AWESOME community here and grow it bigger and better than ever. I am just afraid that if you start offering “premium” content, you will start to lose the community, which is what has made TXP what it is today. Don’t forget that……..

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#19 2007-04-20 20:26:40

maniqui
Moderator
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2004-10-10
Posts: 2,989
Website

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

DigitalRealm wrote:

Here is something to think about…..

First
Would people really pay for extra features (plugins especially), when they can go to another CMS or blogging engine that already offers that functionality, and a better community, and a better support system, plus so much more for free?

Which one? Does it really exist? I think we’re already there! :D


La música ideas portará y siempre continuará

TXP Builders – finely-crafted code, design and txp

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#20 2007-04-20 20:46:58

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2005-11-29
Posts: 2,154
Website

Re: comments on Reader poll: Textpattern Membership

maniqui wrote:

Which one? Does it really exist?

Wordpress ;)


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