Cosmetic Surgery

Skubidu · 2006-10-06 07:21:17

I’ve been sitting here, working and waiting. Won’t someone please join me in the actual work, instead of railing against me (or just ignoring me) at every opportunity? Once again, I’m asking, can we please move on and get something real accomplished?

Mary, I appreciate all your work! I often said that and I have been giving feedback on the things I have been able to see.
I just can say that for me it would be helpful to know where you’re working on in concrete (seeing some HTML or CSS). Then it would be easier to test things or create alternatives if it seem to be helpful for the discussion.

I don’t know the HTML for the navigation for example. And what I wanted to say in my last post was, that it is more important to discuss how things are applied in the HTML than to argue if there has to be a pixel more here or there.

Just tell me what and where to look at (HTML, CSS, structure) :o)

Last edited by Skubidu (2006-10-06 07:21:38)

Destry · 2006-10-06 11:56:29

Mary, Mary, Mary…I hope you don’t think I was railing against you, that’s not the case at all. I was speaking bipartisanly, with a nod to both sides of the fence. Yes, I threw in some irony (like the “2005” thing), but it was irony, nothing more, and it was meant for that side of the fence. ;)

I wanted to clarify some other things too about planning, “paperwork,” and so forth because they are important when “mature” people are involved, but specifically such foundation is important because most folks will put the square peg in the round hole everytime without it. Two simple documents about specifications and approach is hardly volumes; it’s guidance for those many folks who need it.

Of course you’re right, there is another important part, and that is individual commitment and follow-through. Without that, even the most concise, clearly written plan is meaningless, but that’s not the paperwork’s fault. Unfortunately, most online communities experience a dominating percentage of log lumps and not many tree trimmers.

One more observation, and I’m just being fair to the situation here, don’t take it personally. I see a lot of people working on the admin interface independently from the much invested work you’ve done up to this point. Why do you think that is? Well, one reason might be because there’s no paperwork somewhere that tells folks there’s already a plan in process, or what that plan is, or what has been done. You can’t just wait for people to “ask,” you have to put up a Help Wanted sign and advertise it. Otherwise, you get all the offshoot efforts you see.

One thing for sure, community organization is like herding cats.

P.S. Everyone, invest your admin-side interests and time with Mary on this effort with whatever it is she needs your help with. If you don’t know, ask her, and maybe some paperwork will materialize from some motivated individual to keep the rest of the community in light.

(And your right again, Mary, I do know. Sheesh, TextBook, what a slinky it’s been. The right tool in the wrong community, apparently.)

Mary · 2006-10-07 15:53:42

I just can say that for me it would be helpful to know where you’re working on in concrete (seeing some HTML or CSS).

Nils, as I said, “At present we’re still in a concept stage.” You may’ve noticed it’s not in svn yet, and that is why. It’s rather difficult to give something to test which doesn’t exist in a more final state – otherwise I would have “advertised”. I’m don’t want to post anything for testing that might change tomorrow, you see? That’d be wasting everyone’s time. We can’t get there until there is more consensus on the actual design, and it seems we’re nowhere near that.

I hope you don’t think I was railing against you, that’s not the case at all.

I don’t, I wasn’t referring to you.

I’d have to repeat what I’ve said before, that we’re still in a concept stage. Or, consider it brainstorming. To anyone that’s done this before, the process is pretty simple, but if someone wants to invent such paperwork, if it makes them feel better or more prepared or whatever, they can do that. In another situation I’d feel very different, I just personally don’t see how it would benefit here, since it hasn’t worked up ‘till now. If anyone doesn’t understand where I’m coming from on this, just chalk it up to being cynical because you’ve been bitten too many times.

shishira · 2006-10-09 10:49:44

Many a times i have felt bad for not having participated in these discussions. Mary do count me in for the testing. Thanks

hazel · 2006-10-17 23:02:24

Hi everyone,

I have a suggestion. Rather than trying to reach a concensus on the visual design, or decide what new features to implement, how about we just focus on getting the markup cleaned up?

That way we at least have a solid foundation on which to build, and it’s a realistic and achievable step to get things moving.

We could use the latest 4.0.4 release as a base, with each of us tackling just one page (areas/actions) or element (header nav, tables, lists).

We wouldn’t need to touch the source-code, just save the rendered HTML page and rework it into semantic markup with agreed id/class naming conventions (see below).

The process could work as follows:

We get a roll call of interested parties
The pages/elements are allocated
We pin down some naming conventions/structure

Everyone gets a clean 4.0.4 install
You save the rendered HTML of your page/element
You rework it into semantic markup
You post the HTML here for agreement

We eventually have all the pages/elements reworked and agreed.
Mary(?) could work this into the actual source (for 4.0.5 ;)

rloaderro · 2006-10-17 23:26:24

hazel wrote:

We pin down some naming conventions/structure

I think this is a smart approach and i’m definitely game. I have a lot of reference regarding XHTML and CSS naming conventions – if others agree with this approach I’d be happy to post it here or in the wiki..

Destry · 2006-10-19 04:43:43

Contributions like that are great, rloaderro.

Talking to everybody here:

I’m not going to keep saying it (because it’s like blowing smoke rings in a hurricane), but that’s exactly the kind of stuff that should go in the wiki project page. If you put it in the wiki, it’s easily organized and accessible from a single page. People can comment about (or comment here and point links), and the whole collection of thoughts is kept nice, neat, organized, etc, etc, etc. On the other hand, if you add resources here, they just turn into post #92, and in another week it’s probably buried under two more forum pages. If there’s anything I fucking hate about forums, it’s a forum thread that goes on forever, like the zem_contact_reborn thread…sheesh. They only way you can gleen anthing from threads like that is to waste an an hour of your life skimming through all the crap. One wiki page that is cleanly edited is a million times better than a long, rambling forum thread that gets nowhere! I’m pointing out the utility of it all, people, I’m not taking charge of managing the pages. I may help contribute to them, but that’s all I will commit to.

I’ll go have some coffee now.

hazel · 2006-10-19 08:33:56

Right on.

After I finish work today I’ll add my notes to the wiki.

@rloaderro
Could you post your naming convention references on a page too?

hazel · 2006-10-19 21:58:07

Hi all

Ive updated Destry’s TASR wiki page with some new notes, have a look :)

Please add, edit, delete as you see fit. I have some more stuff to add collected from the various threads, will do when I get some more time.

rloaderro · 2006-10-19 22:12:01

hazel wrote:

Ive updated Destry’s TASR wiki page with some new notes, have a look :)

Great hazel! I sent away for a Wiki account – I hope to be able to contribute soon! In the meantime would you like to create a new thread for Semantic Markup here in the forum or she would continue with that here?

hazel · 2006-10-20 08:55:19

Not sure, what do you reckon?

Don’t want to fork the discussion again, there already being this and Ace’s thread going on. But also don’t want to hijack Mary’s thread, which has it’s own valid purpose.

And it still would be good to get some more people onboard, and the nod from Mary, otherwise it’s not gonna go anywhere.

——

Also, just a kind of note to self: The aim is not to write documentation for fun. My only reason for doing it is to reach the goal of getting the markup done (which I see as the ‘Next action’ GTD fans). And to capture some of the valuable ideas in these threads, so we have a bit of vision what to do after that.

Destry · 2006-10-20 11:56:41

hazel wrote:

The aim is not to write documentation for fun…[but]…to capture some of the valuable ideas in these threads, so we have a bit of vision what to do after that.

Exactly! Organized capturing of ideas to light the way. ;)

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#85 2006-10-06 07:21:17

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#86 2006-10-06 11:56:29

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#87 2006-10-07 15:53:42

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#88 2006-10-09 10:49:44

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#89 2006-10-17 23:02:24

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#90 2006-10-17 23:26:24

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#91 2006-10-19 04:43:43

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#92 2006-10-19 08:33:56

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#93 2006-10-19 21:58:07

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#94 2006-10-19 22:12:01

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#95 2006-10-20 08:55:19

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

#96 2006-10-20 11:56:41

Re: Cosmetic Surgery

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